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Police officer justified in fatal mall shooting of black man: Alabama AG

Stories like this just terrify me.. A law-abiding citizen with a concealed handgun license was sitting in ready position after gunfire erupted in the mall. He also was in the Army and serving our country. The police saw him and immediately opened fire on him, assuming he was the shooter. After talking with a Sheriff Deputy in North Carolina where I took my North Carolina CHL class, he told me that deputies are trained to shoot first and ask questions later during a mass shooting. He said, for exaample, if there was a school shooting, he would engage and start shooting at anyone with a gun. I told him what if he killed a law-abiding citizen? He said it doesn't matter. This was shocking to me and a gross violation of our constitutional rights.

What I want is police to be held to the same standards as other law-abiding gun owners. If you kill an innocent person you should be subjugated to the same treatment as any other American citizen. We are suppose to be a free society with a civilian police force. If police are superior to normal citizens, we are in fact, a de facto police state. But, after taking an 8 hour concealed carry course that was taught by a senior deputy (who may end up being Sheriff of the county, himself one day), I am confident that what he told me was very likely a possibility in this Alabama mall shooting.

I hate to say this could have been any of us. Of course, I don't believe his race was any determining factor here. I believe the fact he was crouched down in a defensive position with a gun was more the reason the police decided to execute him and condemned him as guilty until proven innocent.

Just imagine if there was a shooting and one of us mistook a police officer (plain clothes) as the shooter. We would immediately be labelled a "cop-killer" and probably spend the rest of our lives in prison or at least financially ruined with court battles. It is just not right.

This man, Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford, Jr was a law-abiding citizen, a soldier and honorable person. He did not deserve to be gunned down. He was there trying to protect other people's lives and doing what any of us who had the will power and bravery would have done in such a situation. In my opinion, these cops should be convicted of manslaughter, but they are going about their lives and still getting paid, while this brave soul is now laid in his grave.

It also should make us think about what would happen if any of us were in this situation. Would you fear defending yourself and others more because of being shot by the police or by being killed by an assailant? Considering the police can kill you and get away scott free (unlike the assailant ) , a case of mistaken identity for them would not be as big of deal as for us, the peasants who have much less limited rights.
 
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Police? Held to standards? What fantasy are you talking about now?

Next you're gonna talk about how schools should have actual security instead of signs!
 
It is , as has been stated , tragic.

And since i was not there at the shooting I will not give a "After Action review".

Stories like this however , do give me food for thought , on just what to do or not do in a situation like this.
Basic questions like :

How do you tell a threat from just another armed citizen...or responding officer in plain clothes...?
You may only have seconds , to make a decision that will affect the rest of your life.

Will stories like the OP keep me from engaging a actual proven threat...?

Just how often does situations like the OP happen...?

Please note that I am not saying to not engage a threat or defend yourself or others...
Just pondering some ideas that came to mind after reading the OP.
Andy
 
This was all over SIG forum like a rash. Seems all is not what it seemed to be, notwithstanding the reaction of the Alabama police.

Please read - Quote -

What Hoover PD actually said was that they believed he was involved in the altercation, but that it was unlikely he was the shooter.

Also, multiple reports show he - Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. - graduated Boot Camp, but was separated during AIT.

I too have been following this closely. Lots of misinformation going around for sure.

Here's "Li Glock's" FB page - surprised it hasn't been scrubbed yet. [Edit - In case you are wondering, 'Li Glock' is the online hashtag of the Mr Emantic Bradford, shown here illegally wearing the uniform of a soldier in the US Army - note too the non-regulation rotation of the headgear and the odd gesture he is making with his left hand.]

I also wonder what the sign he's throwing means as it's in a lot of his pics. Not to mention his gun (usually in his pocket or covered by "hearts" - except he missed the mag and muzzle on a few.)

Li Glock

Emantic-Fitzgerald-Bradford-Jr-1543086630-640x601.png

43744348_2194403460882615_8298534250810966016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fltn1-1.jpg

Let me see if I'm following this correctly....

Deceased A -- nicknamed Lil' Glock - has FB page full of gang signs.

Deceased B - nickname unknown - has pics full of gang signs.

What's the common denominator here?

End Quote.

So, a wannabe soldier who copped out became a wannabe cop who got copped out. Waving a gun around in a manner likely to get you shot is likely to get you shot.
 
I don't know what the description of the original shooter was of if the police had any information. But even the police should realize a gun not pointed at you isn't going to shoot you.

Somehow the soldier was able the show restraint without backup, radios and the courts supporting him. The new standard is someone's career trumps an innocent life.
 
This was all over SIG forum like a rash. Seems all is not what it seemed to be, notwithstanding the reaction of the Alabama police.

Please read - Quote -

What Hoover PD actually said was that they believed he was involved in the altercation, but that it was unlikely he was the shooter.

Also, multiple reports show he - Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. - graduated Boot Camp, but was separated during AIT.

I too have been following this closely. Lots of misinformation going around for sure.

Here's "Li Glock's" FB page - surprised it hasn't been scrubbed yet. [Edit - In case you are wondering, 'Li Glock' is the online hashtag of the Mr Emantic Bradford, shown here illegally wearing the uniform of a soldier in the US Army - note too the non-regulation rotation of the headgear and the odd gesture he is making with his left hand.]

I also wonder what the sign he's throwing means as it's in a lot of his pics. Not to mention his gun (usually in his pocket or covered by "hearts" - except he missed the mag and muzzle on a few.)

Li Glock

View attachment 545726

View attachment 545727

Let me see if I'm following this correctly....

Deceased A -- nicknamed Lil' Glock - has FB page full of gang signs.

Deceased B - nickname unknown - has pics full of gang signs.

What's the common denominator here?

End Quote.

So, a wannabe soldier who copped out became a wannabe cop who got copped out. Waving a gun around in a manner likely to get you shot is likely to get you shot.
Eh, lots of speculation going on here. Did he legally have a right to the gun? If so, likability is not a requirement to defending yourself in a mall shoooting. Selfies throwing up gang signs doesn't make you a criminal. If that were the case 98% of suburbanite kids would be hard core criminals.
 
That's certainly a gang sign and if he was "released" during his AIT it is likely that he went out on something less than an honorable discharge. The Military doesn't use the DD unless there is murder or treason involved so he likely still had his gun rights.

The usual is true, not enough details are known.

that being said, the LEOs first responsibility is his own safety. So it's my opinion that the shooting was necessary.

I'm not going to say what I would do because I wasn't there.
 
Let the hate mail fly my way, but a conceal carry does not make you a cop, being in the military means nothing when in the public domain. So lets make this look like it did. Man shot while holding a firearm in the middle of a shooting.

Tragic , and sad. But we have to be careful, a CC doesn't make us cops. And cops are not going to know we are good guys.
If we have the opportunity to see cops on scene and its safe, id holster that bad boy. Let them do their jobs.

Side note, its hard to ignore so many armed black men being shot in the news, while legally holding a firearm.
I am not sure whats that about, but is too common for my comfort zone and hurts gun owners immensely.
 
Lesson taken.
If there is no direct threat to me or my beloved ones, I just evacuate or hide.
All others should take care of themselves.

This would be a real problem if some "good guy" is in a place like a mall when a shooter starts in. If the good guy pulls a gun and is hiding behind stuff first LEO's to show are of course never going to know. Me? If I could not see the shooter, could hear him in distance, I would be moving to get the hell away from him. Who knows what this guy was doing. Another problem is if some good guy see's the shooter should he try to open up on him. Me? if the shooter is leaving me a way to get away, I am going to move away. If people are running a lot of "good guys" are likely to miss if they start shooting at the bad guy. Where are the misses going? For me I would have to be cornered to where I had no choice to fire back.
Over a decade ago we had some kook shoot up a mall here. One worker who had a CPL decided to save the day. Went after the shooter, found him, saw it was "a kid" in his own words. Put his gun away and tried to take the shooters gun. It almost cost him his life and he will never walk again. Now after when he realized how dumb this sounded he changed the story a little but bottom line is still the same. If I can get away, I am getting away.
 
Lesson taken.
If there is no direct threat to me or my beloved ones, I just evacuate or hide.
All others should take care of themselves.
That right there is the truth. Mrs308 and I have discussed this many times. Our obligation is to protect each other or self, if we are alone. Period.
 
Let the hate mail fly my way, but a conceal carry does not make you a cop, being in the military means nothing when in the public domain. So lets make this look like it did. Man shot while holding a firearm in the middle of a shooting.

Tragic , and sad. But we have to be careful, a CC doesn't make us cops. And cops are not going to know we are good guys.
If we have the opportunity to see cops on scene and its safe, id holster that bad boy. Let them do their jobs.

Side note, its hard to ignore so many armed black men being shot in the news, while legally holding a firearm.
I am not sure whats that about, but is too common for my comfort zone and hurts gun owners immensely.
And to go one further DH, shows that racism is alive and well in America in the 21 Century. I agree, there's a disproportionate number of legally armed black males who are incorrectly shot and killed by police. But over that past two decades we've receded further and further into a police state...
 
It seems people need to watch a video regarding mass shootings.

How do you tell if the person is the shooter: they are pointing the gun without any regard for anyone's safety at other people, they are also probably shooting.

How do you tell if the person is likely a law abiding citizen responding to help. They are using muzzle discipline, not pointing the gun at anyone, probably not shooting.

A split second of delay to assess the situation further could have led to this civilian responder still being alive and possibly could have aided the police as an additional responder (more is better often)

Sad all around.

That being said, if he was originally involved in the altercation because of gang affiliation, then get the heck out of their and put the gun away to avoid getting shot.

If unfortunately, police (in my experiences) are taught to treat everyone with a gun as a bad guy.... because you know only bad guys own guns in this country. Heck, 10% of the population of Washington state have CPL's.
 
[QUOTE="American123, post: 2171817, member: 45590"

If unfortunately, police (in my experiences) are taught to treat everyone with a gun as a bad guy.... because you know only bad guys own guns in this country. Heck, 10% of the population of Washington state have CPL's.[/QUOTE]

The police are coming out of the academy ill equipped for the real world.
  1. The mentally ill
  2. Legal Carry and laws.
  3. Racial tension.
These three most police departments are ill equipped, yet face probably one or more of these each day.
 
Bottom line, when the cops show up don't have a gun in your hands.
Few years ago, early in the morning, I've done a citizen's arrest of a junkie car prowler.
Local PD cops arrived in few minutes, responded to my wife's 911 call.
They saw me barefooted, in boxers, with a pistol in my hand - keeping the BG at the gunpoint on the ground. Once they arrived I put my pistol on the ground.
Heck, they did not pay much attention to me, like it's just normal, went straight to the BG.
Just to be nice, I asked one of them for permission to pick my pistol up from the ground, he said "OK".
 

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