National AK pistol with Brace OAL

Knebel · Oct 3, 2019

How do I measure an AK pistol with the SOB47 brace that is attached with the grip screw? I read everywhere that the OAL has to be measured with the brace folded (if a folder) and if not folder, the brace removed.

"the brace removed"....does that mean, slide the brace off the buffertube and measure end of tube to muzzle or does that mean "remove the whole buffertube/brace assembly"? Cause in technical terms, the buffer tube is the mounting hardware and the rubber piece is the brace!?

What If I have a buffertube adapter attached to the rear trunnion (screwed on) and the brace slides on it, do I also measure just to the end of the receiver or to the end of the buffertube with the brace removed?

Confusing laws. I know on the AR you slide the brace off and measure to the end of the tube...but on the AK????

Member 34319 · Oct 3, 2019

Are in query to adding a forward vertical grip?

Otherwise what's the point of your question?

Adding the said SOB47 is non permanent and it is not a stock, adding it to a pistol does not reclassify it as a rifle nor an AOW. It is still just a pistol.

If you are looking to add a forward vertical grip, I'm no lawyer, but I'd probably just leave it alone at adding the brace. As braces are designed for pistols, and they do not classify as a rifle stock. Adding a forward vertical grip to a pistol is making a AOW.

Now if you started with a virgin AK receiver and made a "firearm" within the legal definition of "firearm" with it. That would be a different story.

As for your actual question, I believe the SOB47 is not a factor in measuring overall length of an AK pistol. Had the manufacturer added a permanently attached buffer tube then the overall length might be measured differently.

Hope this helps.

When it comes to NFA, I always say, play it safe.

Knebel · Oct 3, 2019

Well, yes. Vertical foregrip question. the manufacturer will be myself. I thought that the pistol over 26" OAL will be legal to add a VFG? So if I were to build it with the buffertube as a part of the gun, the buffertube would count into the measurement? But if its a pistol and you add the brace, the measurement is from end of the receiver to the muzzle, tube and brace excluded?

Member 34319 · Oct 3, 2019

Knebel said:
Well, yes. Vertical foregrip question. the manufacturer will be myself. I thought that the pistol over 26" OAL will be legal to add a VFG? So if I were to build it with the buffertube as a part of the gun, the buffertube would count into the measurement? But if its a pistol and you add the brace, the measurement is from end of the receiver to the muzzle, tube and brace excluded?

You would be a maker.

You transferred it as a pistol. A pistol over 26" is still a pistol. A pistol with a barrel over 16" is still a pistol. Adding a forward vertical grip to a pistol has been determined as making an AOW.

If it was manufactured as a firearm it might be a different story.

That or if you transferred it as a receiver and you, the maker, made it into a "firearm" per the legal definition of "firearm".

This is why the ATF is sort of looking at these things more closely these days. That and people still keep on asking about things they should just leave alone.

Now can you make a pistol into a "firearm" by making it have an overall length greater than 26"? Beats me, I'm no lawyer.

Knebel · Oct 3, 2019

Thank you for your input! I have found that... an OAL over 26" is the cutoff for concealablility. Thos making it a firearm and making it legal for a VFG to be put on. That why I was asking how to measure.

From what I just read, a VFG is determined to be perpendicular (90 degrees) from the bore axis. If its 85° ...or lets just say...at a slight angle, its not considered vertical anymore. But then the other definition issue is that its still a "grip" that is held in a fist...

Sigh... what a minefield of definitions and laws and opinions to get through. It makes a huge difference if the tube is included in the OAL or if it isnt...like, when its a folding brace.

Member 34319 · Oct 3, 2019

Pretty much.

I wish you the best of luck finding your solution.

My issue with these things is the technicality of the transfer being recorded. IE most AK pistols are transferred as a pistol, not a "firearm". Yes you may make it longer by changing things to get a longer overall length, which could reclassify it as a "firearm". Just me being me, which is slightly paranoid.

I myself, would just leave it at a pistol, or file a form 1.

Knebel · Oct 4, 2019

The crazy thing is, i don't really like the VFG but its a good solution because the midwest rail gets so darn hot. I had the setup on my AK rifle but decided to put this back to "the classic look" and use the rail system on the pistol I am building to put a reddot on. I found a different solution for now to fight heat.