AK 47's suck. :)

[raftman]

As a believer in the 7.62x54R round, I like that comparison.

My rifle of choice (soon as I can afford it) will be a PSL-54c, sure, they come with a basic scope, but they're MEANT to shoot long range, so was the Mosin (with iron sights as well). Gunner and I had this conversation a little bit ago. (and if I do get that gun I'll come show ya Cliff )
You can make an AK shoot like a sniper rifle, you can also make a Geo Metro that goes 120+mph, if you reeeally wanted to, doesn't mean it should be done...
Sure an AK is an excellent mid-range urban rifle.. but the guy with the AK will be on the ground before he sees the guy with the PSL
(now my turn for flaming)

What if the guy with the PSL is the kind of guy who shoots like the guys mentioned in the first post?

 

[trainsktg]

What if the guy with the PSL is the kind of guy who shoots like the guys mentioned in the first post?

Be safe...wait for nightfall .

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/fo...cussion/25754-early-russian-night-vision.html

Keith

 

[Arkarayne]

What if the guy with the PSL is the kind of guy who shoots like the guys mentioned in the first post?

A spam can of bulgarian light ball, 4 trash bags of soda cans, 400 yards of clear range, a weekend, and a sandwich or three.
Should solve it.

 

[Gunner3456]

As a believer in the 7.62x54R round, I like that comparison.

My rifle of choice (soon as I can afford it) will be a PSL-54c, sure, they come with a basic scope, but they're MEANT to shoot long range, so was the Mosin (with iron sights as well). Gunner and I had this conversation a little bit ago. (and if I do get that gun I'll come show ya Cliff )
You can make an AK shoot like a sniper rifle, you can also make a Geo Metro that goes 120+mph, if you reeeally wanted to, doesn't mean it should be done...
Sure an AK is an excellent mid-range urban rifle.. but the guy with the AK will be on the ground before he sees the guy with the PSL
(now my turn for flaming)

If you get that gun, you'd better come and show me, LOL.

 

[Just Jim]

I saw a very good marksman shoot his AK at a 100 yard target. The bullet wandered about 50 yards to the left and hit his pickup. Embarrassed to admit he missed by that much with his AK, he swore he was aiming at his truck - right at the tire he blew out.

How can you argue with that?

Sounds to me like you shoot with Mister Magoo

jj

 

[Silver Fox]

OK, good answer. Now, if an AK is an effective "urban" defensive weapon, WHY do some of the guys spend more on optics than they did on the gun?

Why not stick with a good set of iron sights which are good within the (limited) range of the gun?

that is a really good question to ask of the AR crowd. Why do they spend so much on flip to side 3x magnifer, fill-in-the-blank-red-dot, 45 degree angle dr optic micro red dot with laser railed fore end and still unable to zero there rifle on the 25 meter paper target with iron sights? It's like they have this fantasy world of "cool guy operator" show off how much one can spend on a rifle that has drawn more contorversy and skepticism than any other service rifle I am aware of, but freak out if they scratch there butstock. Just don't get it.

As for the AK vs. Fill in the blank rifle, it rely boils down to the owner of the rifle and what they are willing to compromise. I mean accurate 5.56 shooting 1" groups on paper looks really good until there 'paper' target is behind a tree stump.

Just sayin'...... Oh wait, this is one of Gunners random threads to get under peoples skin so he can sit back and have a good chuckle. Gunner, you old puppet master you

SF-

 

[56kninja]

that is a really good question to ask of the AR crowd. Why do they spend so much on flip to side 3x magnifer, fill-in-the-blank-red-dot, 45 degree angle dr optic micro red dot with laser railed fore end and still unable to zero there rifle on the 25 meter paper target with iron sights? It's like they have this fantasy world of "cool guy operator" show off how much one can spend on a rifle that has drawn more contorversy and skepticism than any other service rifle I am aware of, but freak out if they scratch there butstock. Just don't get it.

As for the AK vs. Fill in the blank rifle, it rely boils down to the owner of the rifle and what they are willing to compromise. I mean accurate 5.56 shooting 1" groups on paper looks really good until there 'paper' target is behind a tree stump.

Just sayin'...... Oh wait, this is one of Gunners random threads to get under peoples skin so he can sit back and have a good chuckle. Gunner, you old puppet master you

SF-

Call of Duty.

 

[Gunner3456]

that is a really good question to ask of the AR crowd. Why do they spend so much on flip to side 3x magnifer, fill-in-the-blank-red-dot, 45 degree angle dr optic micro red dot with laser railed fore end and still unable to zero there rifle on the 25 meter paper target with iron sights? It's like they have this fantasy world of "cool guy operator" show off how much one can spend on a rifle that has drawn more contorversy and skepticism than any other service rifle I am aware of, but freak out if they scratch there butstock. Just don't get it.

SF, I spend less than $200 on an AR scope. I'm partial to shotgun scopes because they are short, tough, and fit the format well. My main squeeze AR-15 has a Leupold 2x7 that cost me less than $200 with mounts on sale. (Leopold model 61570 muzzle loader/shotgun scope.)

Just sayin'...... Oh wait, this is one of Gunners random threads to get under peoples skin so he can sit back and have a good chuckle. Gunner, you old puppet master you

SF-

Hey, I was bored.

 

[Silver Fox]

SF, I spend less than $200 on an AR scope. I'm partial to shotgun scopes because they are short, tough, and fit the format well. My main squeeze AR-15 has a Leupold 2x7 that cost me less than $200 with mounts on sale. (Leopold model 61570 muzzle loader/shotgun scope.)



Hey, I was bored.

Yeah I know you were bored, but some people are kind of sensitive like that.

The shotgun scope is an excellant substitue for the standard low power scopes. Also your southeren Oregon, practical common sense mixed with your generations (or is it our generation??) thinking allows you to free yourself from marketing gimmiks.

Hhhmmmmmmm if Marlin only made a lever rifle that accepted a 30 round detachable magazine, in the meantime I'll stick with my 3rd world, rural country farmers carbine with minute of pizza box accuracy with the old school detachable magazine funky removal.

SF-

 

[Gunner3456]

Hhhmmmmmmm if Marlin only made a lever rifle that accepted a 30 round detachable magazine...

SF-

You mean like mine?

 

[Silver Fox]

I was thinking more like the FN PS-90 magazines and ran parallel to the receiver and barrel. Can you 'design' that?

Cliff, also we cannot leave out the 'call of duty' crowd, handguard needs to be railed with lights, lasers, scopes, red dots and an iPod.

SF-

 

[Gunner3456]

I was thinking more like the FN PS-90 magazines and ran parallel to the receiver and barrel. Can you 'design' that?

Cliff, also we cannot leave out the 'call of duty' crowd, handguard needs to be railed with lights, lasers, scopes, red dots and an iPod.

SF-

You forgot night vision and a bayonet.

 

[Silver Fox]

We are so insensitive, we both left out the forward pistol grip!

can you 'design' such awesomness?

With this being a lever rifle is it CA compliant? You know send some assistance to our occupied southern neighbors.

SF-

 

[Gunner3456]

We are so insensitive, we both left out the forward pistol grip!

can you 'design' such awesomness?

With this being a lever rifle is it CA compliant? You know send some assistance to our occupied southern neighbors.

SF-

If I wasn't spending the day troubleshooting a network server, I'd build a dandy, LOL.

Cliff

 

[Silver Fox]

Ok. How about a five business days?

SF-

 

[Gunner3456]

Ok. How about a five business days?

SF-

I actually did one a couple of years ago that even had an antique car's hood bird on the front of the barrel but I didn't save it. I've seen it on the web a couple of times since. If I get some time I'll do something.

Cliff

 

[djm68]

Here's a pic from PR yesterday ( stolen from Tangofoxtrot )...not me in the pic, it's to show range...

had to play with the brightness and contrast a bit, then circled the targets in the pic. I couldn't make out the farthest target on this pic, but it was in between the rock crusher/conveyor thingy and the red circled target on the right. They were at 300+ yards.

My "inaccurate" AK was able to hit all ( there were 10 total targets on that stage ) in 77 seconds, the back ones needing a few rounds to find range on them...I am running a cheap red dot on an Ultimak, nothing special and no magnification.

Par time on the stage was 180 seconds, with many of the guys using it all and not hitting all of the targets....

I am in no way an "expert" shooter, but I know my rifle and what it can do, running Yugo surplus, I'm averaging about 2MOA, plenty accurate for 300+ yards.

Do not want to steal the thread, but how do I find out more about this type of shooting competition? It looks very interesting!

Thanks,
DJM

 

[Arkarayne]

Do not want to steal the thread, but how do I find out more about this type of shooting competition? It looks very interesting!

Thanks,
DJM

Yeah.. if I end up getting that rifle the 200 yard range in white city can only test so much... you know, the AK's optimum range..

 

[Unka-Boo]

If you search for " practical rifle " it should bring up some threads on it here....I can shoot you some more info once I get home, if you want.

 

[Riot]

OK, good answer. Now, if an AK is an effective "urban" defensive weapon, WHY do some of the guys spend more on optics than they did on the gun?

Why not stick with a good set of iron sights which are good within the (limited) range of the gun?

lol

I always wondered that myself...the AK is ment to be used and abused, then someone slaps a $500 sight on it and cries when it get scratched when they transition from rifle to pistol.

Irons work, AKs work...they aren't ment to be pretty, just rugged.

As far as accuracy goes, I have to dissagree. My WASR-10 is a lot more accurate than I thought it would be (splitting wooden stakes at 100yards, hitting gongs at 400yards). Would she hold a group? Yes, but nothing to write home about.

They're battle rifles...made for the abuse that comes with war. Heck, most of the ragheads I saw overseas don't even look down the sights when they fire anyways....maybe we should stop buying them VZ 58s and AMD 65s and just stick them with the AKMs