AK 47's suck. :)

[Gunner3456]

Doesn't take into account effective range. An AKM round dies in the air and falls to the ground
at 50 yards.

 

[Gunner3456]

-snip-

But it seems to me that the 5.56 round is inherently more accurate than the 7.62 X 39 at ranges where bullet weight are not a huge factor.

Bullet weight has zero to do with range or accuracy here. The AK is a very low powered, low speed bullet compared to the AR's. The lighter AR's will reach WAY farther with accuracy than an AK.

All the heavy bullet of the AK does is pull it to the ground faster. They are great for digging post holes, though.

 

[raftman]

AKs are horribly in-accurate. They are overhyped as "reliable" while they are usually, they have design flaws that for some reason people over look.

"Inaccurate" is a pretty relative term, as is "horribly" I suppose. If one can't hit a man-sized target with an AK in 7.62x39 at 300 yards, they should either practice more or find a different hobby.

 

[trainsktg]

All the heavy bullet of the AK does is pull it to the ground faster.

So...a cinder block falls faster than an apple?

Keith

 

[marty8587]

Thet are both alot of fun as I own both. My AK with folding stock looks really cool in its red velvet lined violin case. Seriosly I consider them different tools for different situations.

 

[Gunner3456]

So...a cinder block falls faster than an apple?

Keith

No, an AK bullet falls faster than an apple.

 

[Gunner3456]

"Inaccurate" is a pretty relative term, as is "horribly" I suppose. If one can't hit a man-sized target with an AK in 7.62x39 at 300 yards, they should either practice more or find a different hobby.

One did once.

 

[Unka-Boo]

I'm really a noob when it comes to rifles.

It seems to me that there are design features that tend towards accuracy, a solid stock instead of a two piece stock, rotary locking bolt, harmonics of the barrel, (Which has been the bane of the Mini 14) the trigger group, the sights, and the cartridge's inherent potential for accuracy. Maybe I have missed something? The shooter has nothing to do with the inherent accuracy potential of the rifle.

Unlike many things that can be tested rifles are hard to do a double blind test on, anyone who knows how to bring the best out of a rifle doubtless knows the difference between an AR and an AK,so the documentary test was likely flawed by bias. They were trying to make the case that the M-16 is a great battle rifle, bias?

Likewise anyone in this forum who may be willing to chime in may have a bias as well, but I've read often that the AR rifles are much more accurate than the AK's.

Bias also extends to ammunition types, I had a guy try to tell me that my FAL was going to be a highly expensive club after the ammo was gone, and of course he would still be shooting his M-15. True, given the limited scenario.

But it seems to me that the 5.56 round is inherently more accurate than the 7.62 X 39 at ranges where bullet weight are not a huge factor. There are many things that appear to me to favor the AR, the cartridge, the rotary bolt, and what I've personally seen many times, the inferior quality of most AK manufacturing. They look junky to me, that can't help.

I'd like to hear what some target rifle shooters would say about the differences between the two rifles. As I said, I'm not well versed in rifle technology.

What I'm saying is that an AK can be more accurate than most give it credit for. Platform wise, ARs will be "more inherently accurate", to use a term....

Biggest problem with these discussions; Most that get into these debates just spew out recycled internet tables and charts and folklore...I'd lay odds that most who talk down either platform has very little experience with either one.

 

[trainsktg]

No, an AK bullet falls faster than an apple.

Keith

 

[pogi]

A poor workman blames his tools. I'll take an AK any old day.

 

[Gunner3456]

What I'm saying is that an AK can be more accurate than most give it credit for. Platform wise, ARs will be "more inherently accurate", to use a term....

Biggest problem with these discussions; Most that get into these debates just spew out recycled internet tables and charts and folklore...I'd lay odds that most who talk down either platform has very little experience with either one.

I saw a very good marksman shoot his AK at a 100 yard target. The bullet wandered about 50 yards to the left and hit his pickup. Embarrassed to admit he missed by that much with his AK, he swore he was aiming at his truck - right at the tire he blew out.

How can you argue with that?

 

[pogi]

What I'm saying is that an AK can be more accurate than most give it credit for. Platform wise, ARs will be "more inherently accurate", to use a term....

Biggest problem with these discussions; Most that get into these debates just spew out recycled internet tables and charts and folklore...I'd lay odds that most who talk down either platform has very little experience with either one.

Boo has it 100% correct. Buy a POS Century build and you get what you pay for.

 

[spengo]

I had a rather large group of friends over yesterday and all were invited to bring weapons to fire. We went down the road and set up a 50 yard and a 200 yard target. My own range is only 100 yards.

We also had a pretty darned good barbecue.

Some guys brought hunting rifles and handguns, but the bulk of the long guns fired and sighted in, etc. were AKM's, AR-15's and a few AR-10's. There were a couple of AK-74's.

I got very discouraged with the lack of accuracy from the AKM's and some of them even had expensive optics. (Why, I'll never know.)

I went home and grabbed my Dad's 60 year old Marlin 30-30 and with iron sights shot the best group of all the AKM's. (sandbags.)

IMHO an AKM is nothing more than a semi-auto 30-30 but lacking the accuracy.

The AR's are deadly accurate. A couple of AK-74's were deadly.

OK, flame away.

Cliff:

Now, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been said, but are you sure it isn't shooter error? A decent AK should get around 3moa. While that isn't quite AR-15 accuracy, it should outdo most shooters unless they are prone. When I was at the appleseed shoot this weekend, a Czech guy brought his yugo AK and at the beginning he couldn't even get all the rounds on the paper but by the end he was making some half decent groups.

 

[56kninja]

care to discus what they are?

A GIANT gap when the safety is off that dirt and sand can very easily get into and block the trigger preventing the hammer from being released or being fired after the second shot.

It's a very serious issue in a gun you might be crawling through the sand with. Tiny rocks could also very feasibly get in here and in mass could cause issues with the bolt carrier. functioning properly.

I've also had the bolt carrier freeze stuck in cold weather.. This is a minor issue, and only happened because I didn't realize how cold it was outside.. Only happened once, and could have been prevented by running the bolt carrier a few times.

But if you're a soldier and walking through a cold area, and someone shoots at you, are you going to stop and jack the carrier up and down until it works? You would but it wastes time.

Those are functional issues.. but the bigger issues are ergonomic. The out of the box rifle is just horribly uncomfortable to hold, aim and fire in my opinion.. It takes effort.. Where when I pick up an out of the box AR-15, it feels comfortable to hold, aim and fire.

AR-15 Iron sights are also much better and more clear in my opinion. The AKs are too crude. But mine might just be poorly made.. and I haven't found any replacements that had good reviews.

 

[Gunner3456]

Now, I'm too lazy...

Me too. It's Sunday afternoon and I've watched all the football I'm going to for a while.

 

[trainsktg]

The mag release is better on an AR, too. An AK can be recharged very quickly (and coolly), but it takes some practice. YouTube - Polish commando fast reload (This isn't the fastest I've seen this done, plus he's a bit jerky in his movements, but you get the idea. It takes some skill to do a fast reload.) This next guy is pretty good, but he doesn't have a bunch of stuff hanging all over him either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hi20TI_jA&feature=related

For those that haven't seen it, here's a bit of neat AR/AK humor with a Mosin thrown in for good measure. Mosin Nagant Humor  AK vs. AR vs. Mosin Nagant

This thread is getting as much activity as the old Cannibalism thread .

Keith

 

[marty8587]

that was good!

 

[Gunner3456]

For those that haven't seen it, here's a bit of neat AR/AK humor with a Mosin thrown in for good measure. Mosin Nagant Humor* AK vs. AR vs. Mosin Nagant

Keith

Keith, that is hilarious.

 

[dario541]

Hey, Gunner:

I well remember Bob Kennedy on north Riverside In Medford. The good news was that he had just about every gun that was available at that time. You could walk in and hold them. It gave you a chance to see how they handled. The bad news was that he ALWAYS wanted the FULL manufacturers retail price. He was a somewhat shady character but I wish that he was still around, OR, that there was another person around here who operates like he did! Dario

 

[Arkarayne]

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm
Keith, that is hilarious.

As a believer in the 7.62x54R round, I like that comparison.

My rifle of choice (soon as I can afford it) will be a PSL-54c, sure, they come with a basic scope, but they're MEANT to shoot long range, so was the Mosin (with iron sights as well). Gunner and I had this conversation a little bit ago. (and if I do get that gun I'll come show ya Cliff )
You can make an AK shoot like a sniper rifle, you can also make a Geo Metro that goes 120+mph, if you reeeally wanted to, doesn't mean it should be done...
Sure an AK is an excellent mid-range urban rifle.. but the guy with the AK will be on the ground before he sees the guy with the PSL
(now my turn for flaming)