Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Airsoft worth training with?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Reno911, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    I am always looking for more cost affective practice.

    Has anyone ever shot or owned one of these?

    http://www.airsplat.com/Items/GP-KSC-G19-MET.htm

    If it it damn near the same as the real think and works with holsters designed for the real thing. I'm thinking I just found the best way to practice pistol techniques.

    Also how bad does it hurt? I think this thing may be a good way to practice oncoming assaults. Better than practicing with an unloaded cleared gun. This way you can know if you were able to get a round off and if you were successful in placement of said round.

    Post up if you own one or similar?
     
  2. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Central Oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    513
    I used to have an airsoft obsession. At one point a I had close to $10k into airsoft guns. Playing is a lot of fun, can work on clearing rooms under stress, getting cover, reload times, and shooting fundamentals. KSC/KWA guns are good, but I would order one directly from overseas instead of AIRSPLAT as they sell counterfits. Real KSC G serreis guns have full trademarks. This is a better site KSC Glock 19 - Metal Slide ( Taiwan Version ) [KSC-GP-G19MSTW-AG] - US$144.00 : Airsoft Global!, Gun

    If you have any other questions about airsoft let me know. I have been out of the game for 5-6 years, but I still do tech work for some of my old clients. Here are a couple of my past builds just for fun.

    IMG_0458.jpg
    IMG_0451.jpg
    P1020526.jpg
    IMG_0118.jpg
    IMG_0124.jpg
    DSC01978.jpg
    IMG_0349.jpg
    IMG_0331.jpg Photo by 2wheels4ever | Photobucket
    IMG_0321.jpg
    IMG_0263.jpg
    IMG_0179.jpg
     
  3. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Central Oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    513
    Double
     
  4. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Awesome stuff.

    I'll take your advice and order from over seas.

    I've been reading about these blowback models. They can take propane or a special gas? Any advice on this?

    What type of maintenance do they require?

    Thanks!
     
  5. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    I have never owned an airsoft gun, so I can't speak from personal experience with those.....however, I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in various firearms in my life both as a civilian and in the military. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that training with an airsoft gun for real world engagements is a bad idea. No matter how expensive or realistic looking an airsoft gun is, its still a toy. A firearm of any type can kill....just that fact alone triggers your brain to utilize the weapon in a different manner. Training with a real firearm forces you to deal with recoil, flash, noise, breath and trigger control, etc.
    If airsoft guns were a viable alternative to live fire exercises, the military would use them and save a ton of money.....

    Sorry to sound negative, its just my opinion.
     
    CoastRange57 and Doc In UPlace like this.
  6. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    I appreciate the counter point you make.

    I'm more looking to practice some of the things live fire ammo can not necessarily produce. Like a living person simulating attack, etc.

    In my eyes any training is better than no training.
     
  7. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Central Oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    513
    The Military and Police use sim rounds and laser systems. Both of which train one how to react in certain situations without using live ammo. In no way am I suggesting that you should replace training with real firearms by airsofting. However, muscle memory plays a key role when in a stressful situation, and airsoft can by a viable way to train multiple aspects of shooting, and target acquisition. Unless you are in war, you are never going to be able to use real ammo to train on live targets.

    Rebuttal aside, you can use green gas and propane in these guns. Silicone oil is used to keep everything lubed, and they require liberal amounts to keep running smoothly. The difference between green gas and propane is minimal. GG has no scent and a lubricant additive. You can also get Co2 mags that will shoot hotter. Propane has a smell and requires more frequent lubing. With upgrades these guns can kick more than a .22lr.

    As far as power, a 400fps gun will smart like hell if it hits the back of your hand, knuckle, or bare skin. I have shot out a tooth and drawn blood in multiple games. If you are wearing any sort of coat that is not skin tight, you will hear the hit more so than feeling the hit.

    They are a lot of fun, and can be pretty accurate toys. Also if you are going to get a glock, get the G18c or the G23c. The full auto on these are a blast.http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51_56&products_id=9606
    http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51_56&products_id=8704
     
  8. BroncoFan

    BroncoFan Eastern Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    277
    Airsoft is an excellent force on force simulation and we use it regularly at our county agency. Does it hurt? I have had shots from across the room draw blood and I have scars still from a few years back on my knuckles. Learned to wear gloves real quick. Lessons in proper room clearing with a little pain reinforcement are not quickly forgotten. The higher quality guns really zing. Wear head protection.
     
  9. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    What's the feel of these? Realistic?

    I'm not really looking for a full auto. I'll probably just order a 19 from the link you provided as well as a propane tip thingy.
     
  10. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Central Oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    513
    The plastic feels good, the trigger is better on some than others. The recoil spring has next to no tension and pulling it back can be done with your pinky. Since the upper is aluminum the gun itself is not close to the same weight as a real glock. However the magazines are much heavier than real mags. With a mag in the gun the weight is real enough to fool people. You can get a cnc'd steel slide, upgrade all the internals and get a heavier recoil spring for a very realistic feel and harder recoil, but then you are getting into a $600-$700 airsoft gun.

    http://www.airsoftglobal.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=14734
     
  11. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Wow. I don't need anything that fancy. I would love to train with the wife though on realistic assaults. Get her muscle memory down. As well as my own.

    I will probably end up crafting up some sort of target range too.

    How loud are these things?
     
  12. 2Wheels4Ever

    2Wheels4Ever Central Oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,108
    Likes Received:
    513
    Not at all.

    In Asia they use airsoft for IPSC [video=youtube;ABhkFTO4cp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhkFTO4cp4[/video]
     
  13. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    169
    If they are treated as a real gun, and used strictly as a training tool, GREAT

    I have been involved a little bit with these as training tools.

    AS mentioned, doing house clearing, room clearing etc, you can really work on tactics.

    Running a team exercise with one team as the bad guys and one as the good guys is great. You get a pretty good adrenaline surge when doing this, as you know your up against a real opponent.

    Playing the airsoft games, running around shooting at each other like we did as kids, ahhhhh, not so much.

    Treat it like the real deal and it can be a very good and inexpensive training tool.
     
  14. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet Kitsap County, WA Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gabe Suarez has a couple of good training books and DVDs about how to use Airsoft in Force-on-Force training. Suggest you do a Google search for "Gabe Suarez Force on Force".

    Another good book, which is really heavy on Force-on-Force training is "Training in the Speed of Life".

    Good luck!
     
  15. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    250
    My thought is these Airsoft guns are weighted and built with extreme detail to their real counterpart. So when you go to any training, your giving a blue gun to practice technique, with the lack of actually firing the weapon. At least with this, drawing from a holtster and actually getting to pull a trigger is good training, it provides a bit of extra muscle memory with moving your finger into the trigger guard and appling pressure. The way I look at it, a good trigger pull is practiced with a Nerf gun all the way to your personnel firearm.
     
  16. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    225
    Not if you treat it as such. Airsoft is a great training aid, especially ones that have gas blowback capabilities.

    I have pictures of the Oregon National Guard using airsoft through a volunteer group. I have pictures of the Eugene SWAT team using airsoft. Granted it technically is the OPFOR using the airsoft, it still is a sobering thought when you are going through a building with your BFA on the end of your M4 and you make a mistake and a bb hits you. You are dead. You realize if this situation was real I WOULD BE DEAD.

    Yes, even if airsoft inst being used by the person training it still can be used in training it is much cheaper than forking out TONS of money for SIMrounds or SIMguns.
     
    Riot and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Well I've been practicing with a airsoft g19 now indoors for a few weeks now. I ordered from Airsplat. I didn't want to wait for something direct from china.

    I've set up an indoor practice area in the spare bedroom with two cardboard silhouettes. I practice unholstering from conceal and engaging both with 3 rounds each.

    I've since taken that practice out in the state forrest. It definitely has aided in my drawing time and shot placement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  18. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    I tried paintball, but the rental guns were SOOO inaccurate that it was a waste of time and money. Are the Airsoft any more accurate?


    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
    Defender of Freedom Award
    NRA Recruiter
    Second Amendment Foundation Member
    Washington Arms Collectors Member
    Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  19. KillerBD

    KillerBD Oak Harbor, WA Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    10
    It depends on your context, the military does even cheaper training than you may believe. I've done mock-drills pretending to clear mine fields, clear buildings, pull security, all while using my hands and fingers and saying *pew pew* before. Sometimes you just don't have the money/time/place to do the best training with the 'real steel' equipment. Even firing blanks with miles gear isn't always that 'uber-realistic', certainly doesn't put much fear in me anyway. Acutally I can say I avoid being hit by paintball or pellets far more than I worry about our old-trash MILES gear making a 'beep' sound.

    I would say using airsoft as a training tool, will work just fine as that. Used as another form of training I don't see the harm in it, so long as you still train with the real steel from time to time as well, keep the basic fundamentals fresh.

    If it's stupid, but it works... Then it's probably not that stupid, not to mention the price you could potentially save. Even running through blanks putting on BFAs, then cleaning our equipment afterwards, takes up quite a bit of time, and far more money. So coming from someone with military experience, I would say go for it. Especially if you want to replicate force on force training that is safe, and as 'realistic' as you can go for. AFAIK not many civilians play with MILES gear (laser tag, except far less fun carrying all that old-**** around) and shoot blanks out of real-steel guns in this manner. The military does use 'simunition' though, quite similar to paintball or airsoft, but yet again, EXPENSIVE.

    I should probably add I don't own or play airsoft. Used to be into paintball a bit, but I don't play or own much of the stuff anymore. But who knows, maybe in the future, I know a few people in my unit that are kind of 'into' airsoft... But I still enjoy doing 'real steel' training, sadly, as mentioned above; can't always get the best training all the time... *pew pew pa pew* *pointing fingers at the OPFOR*:p
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
    SIG383 and Phillip Boisselle like this.
  20. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    107
    I see the value of training with airsoft. Personal training weapons these days can simulate just about every function of a real steel weapon (minus the recoil) which lends a certain familiarity or muscle memory to your chosen platform. That alone is reason enough. I have 10 year old nephews who have never held a real gun who know more about muzzle control than some of the adults I've seen out in the woods plinking.

    There are several mature airsoft groups that attempt to train in the same manner as the professionals - minus the live fire and hazard pay.



    One last piece of advice: AIRSPLAT.COM SUCKS.

    Order from a local company. You may pay more up front, but I've learned from personal experience with the aforementioned company that if something does go wrong, it's money well spent. The required headgear of the Airsplat customer service team is rumored to be the cause of their high turnover rate - many being lost to politics.

    ashat.jpg

    ashat.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    kod38 and Portaledgepete like this.