After lots of thought bugging out will fail

[Just Jim]

Survival is being able to adapt to changes in life and live through them.

I was about to go into a long rant here about what I think it will take to get through the comming calamities. Wasted words as we are all going to make our own choices and live or die by them. Common sense won't kill you but the lack of it will. Can people develope common sense? Look who most of the people voted for and answer that again. lol

jj

 

[RVTECH]

I posted this reply in a previous thread but it applies in this one....

Anyone considering bugging out.......

I have lived a good portion of my life in rural and semi-rural locations and currently live in a rural subdivision on an acre outside of LaPine. A large amount of my free time is spent camping, fishing, quad riding, shooting etc. in and around the Deschutes National Forest near where I live and I certainly understand what Elsullo is talking about when he refers to the "feral" people in the woods - and those people are there during the "good" times. I have been following many threads and posts about the concept of "bugging out", and have tried to remain open minded due to my own outdoors experience but Elsullo gave an excellent, well-stated summation of the "bug out" controversy. While the concept of bugging out is a romantic notion, probably fueled by fictitious books and movies rather than real experience, for most the reality is it would be a harsh and violent existence and if one even survived the short term the physical and emotional damage would be more than most would want to experience. I would suggest to anyone who actually believes they could effectively bug out crack some books on the actual stories of those who have tried. A good example is a collection of journals, and printed in a 40's edition of Outdoor Life Magazine called "Northern Lives" , which several men who tried to survive in the wilderness of Alaska documented their day to day struggles in their diaries - until the entries came to an abrupt end - and this was in the relatively "modern" times of the early 1900's and they did not have to share their resources with anyone, nor fight anyone for them. Another would be the recent case of Chris McCandless of the true story and movie "Into The Wild".

 

[RVTECH]

I would like to make a simple suggestion to those who would consider bugging out - give it a trial run. Take a week vacation, grab your BOB and head into your favorite spot in the woods. Make sure someone knows where you are going and when you will be back and try to live off the supplies you brought and see if you can supplement it with small game, fish etc (proper laws apply). Set a goal to stay out for the time you have - do not wimp out and head in after two or three days - stay until you need to be back regardless whether you are hungry, cold and I guarantee you will have a good idea of what it takes. I am not just armchair quarterbacking here - I used to do this on a regular basis - some time ago.

 

[EZLivin]

In 1929, the crash was sudden for those who weren't watching, but many saw the folly and prepared. The same was true for most other countries I can think of which crashed - Germany, Venezuela, etc..

That is so true. Sudden for those not watching; and perhaps even slow for those who were indeed watching. Nine years ago I began positioning my investments for this hour, as well as our personal supplies. Along the way I have been amazed how they (Gov and major media) continue to patch things up and cause people to believe everything will be fine "soon." I really thought the US$ would have unraveled by now. It is so obvious things are not going to be "fine" for a long, long time, and the majority of pain is ahead.

For anyone interested in the personal finance/economic side of this, I strongly recommend they visit Jim Sinclair's site daily. I think he is one of the sharpest minds on the planet. Plus he has an indoor gun range in his basement, so you know he is one of the "good guys" http://jsmineset.com/

 

[dobanion]

Our leaders are digging a hole we can't get out of. All it would take would be for China to panic over the value of the dollar and to want it's money back (sell it's US securities) and then other countries wouldn't take our dollar for payment for our imports including oil.

This is the leading way I think "The Collapse" will come.

There is NO WAY China expects to get it's investment back on all this US debt it has. They just can't, there's no evidence to suggest we will be able to pay them back. So then......why? Why carry all that debt?

Because when the time is right, they dump all the US securities, and trigger a collapse of the dollar, and shortly thereafter, the entire US economy (and government).

 

[Boats]

I would suggest to anyone who actually believes they could effectively bug out crack some books on the actual stories of those who have tried. A good example is a collection of journals, and printed in a 40's edition of Outdoor Life Magazine called "Northern Lives" , which several men who tried to survive in the wilderness of Alaska documented their day to day struggles in their diaries - until the entries came to an abrupt end - and this was in the relatively "modern" times of the early 1900's and they did not have to share their resources with anyone, nor fight anyone for them. Another would be the recent case of Chris McCandless of the true story and movie "Into The Wild."

I'd only like to point out a few things. First the native peoples of this continent were making a living "in the wild" for thousands of years with essentially stone age gear. Many whites got all the way across the continent without Gore-Tex, stainless steel, water purifiers etc. The knowledge is out there to survive if not thrive in the wilderness, but next to no one practices it anymore.

Finally, Chis McCandless was a Grade A idiot. He died in Alaska from a combination of things, all preventable and all of his own doing. Without even delving into his unfamiliarity with the geography of his new surroundings he:

1. Was ill-equipped.
2. Lacked skills, (He gunned down a moose but couldn't field preserve the meat.)
3. Not determined enough. (Once he realized the river where he had crossed it when frozen had "trapped" him after it thawed, he didn't explore very far for a safer crossing or he'd have encountered a man haul suspended above the river a few miles from his usual position at the abandoned bus.)
4. He took a stupid risk with a plant that poisoned him and directly led to his death. (Even if you think you have a plant identified you have to test the edibility of all of the parts you might eat.)

 

[smurf hunter]

[*]He took a stupid risk with a plant that poisoned him and directly led to his death. (Even if you think you have a plant identified you have to test the edibility of all of the parts you might eat.)
[/LIST]

I've both read and watched the movie. The book suggested it was somewhat inconclusive exactly what happened, but I'm inclined to agree with you. I fully agree that he was ill prepared, arrogant and missed some simple things as you point out.

How does one "test" the edibility of a plant or its parts?

 

[Boats]

 

[shakazulu12]

One thing I have always wondered is what people actually think a SHTF scenario is and how they feel that their plan applies to all of them?

I guess what I'm saying is, its one thing to have all of the equipment and a plan to get out of town, but why exactly do you feel that is needed in the first place? To me, planning for SHTF is having gear and equipment to sustain myself if needed, but not necessarily skipping town for the mountains. Put it this way, how would your bug out plan be affected in the following SHTF scenarios:

Cataclysmic collapse of government - Me personally, I'm bugging in for this one. Assuming no natural disaster I would rather bind the community together in numbers. No sense hitting the highway yet.

Natural disaster (local type such as Katrina or an earthquake) - well, again, if I'm safe where I'm at and have a water source, I'm staying put. If the climate/situations deems I have to move, then I will. If Portland was 100 feet underwater,then I'll just plan a trip to visit family in some other state and couch surf. No need to take the rifle with me for that one.

Invasion by foriegn power - Join the resistance. Heading for the hills won't matter much if the intent was to destroy our way of life.

Zombie invasion - Pretty much the only reason I can think to get the **** out of Dodge. But if you are talking more than a few months, or its winter time, I'm headed to plains area's that have wild pigs since they re-produce so much and are a source of meat.

Nuclear apocolypse/Aliens blow up the planet - well, seeing as how the city is gone anyway, out or in doesn't really matter at this point. I'm assuming greater than 98% of the world is dead at this point

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, just always curious when someone says ''I'm heading for the hills if SHTF'' but never clarifies why they are leaving in the first place.

 

[phathom]

I have a plan for SHTF, but it includes gathering family and close friends in one location and pooling our resources at one defensible maintainable point and then if we must leave we caravan fully supplied and fully armed as one unit. Bugging out is not a real option, it's more of a group up and organize.

 

[Just Jim]

Think out what society will be like when it's over and who will fall as it changes in the process. Should it be really big then it might be only ten percent of the population survives. Think about that and who the 90% will be.

jj

 

[Riot]

I have a plan for SHTF, but it includes gathering family and close friends in one location and pooling our resources at one defensible maintainable point and then if we must leave we caravan fully supplied and fully armed as one unit. Bugging out is not a real option, it's more of a group up and organize.

This was a rough draft of my original plan....but you should also be prepared for not being able to travel or link up together. unless you all live in the same town, I would plan for at least a week's worth of survival on your own before you can link up together.

Think out what society will be like when it's over and who will fall as it changes in the process. Should it be really big then it might be only ten percent of the population survives. Think about that and who the 90% will be.

Alright Jim, I think we hit a crossroad where I'm just going to say to you that I would rather be the 10% that lived than the 90% that died.

 

[phathom]

This was a rough draft of my original plan....but you should also be prepared for not being able to travel or link up together. unless you all live in the same town, I would plan for at least a week's worth of survival on your own before you can link up together.

My parents live about 30 miles away and my wife's family lives less than 5 miles away as well as her stepdad who lives about 5 minutes away from them. All of us like minded in the survival deal with skills in everything from mechanics, to carpentry, to communications (mine), and general outdoor survival (all of the guys boy scouts before, and not just cookie selling ones either lol), all of us have a specialty and have some knowledge about everything else + all gun nuts. My parents have a bigger chunk of land that's half way gated in and have materials to gate in the rest + lots of older y2k supplies so we'd end up heading up there after we all grouped up in the immediate area. We already have a predetermined meeting spot and what to grab and not grab, and how to get there in all circumstances planned out.
We'll be good

 

[TheHossUSMC]

I bought empty sandbags and concertina wire along with other prepping supplies. My house has a flat roof and is across the street from a city park so I have the high ground and large gardening covered. Plus we have some friends 5 to 10 mins outside the city that are huge preppers and have invited us out there if we have to go. Being in Eugene is a good thing because it's like 2% people who know what the heck they are doing and armed to the teeth and 98% hipsters/hippies/yuppies who will mostly all die well withing the time that my supplies will last. Any that don't will be kept out of my new domain. (the park) unless they want to come work for me I might consider paying a few to be gardeners.

 

[Wenis]

I bought empty sandbags and concertina wire along with other prepping supplies. My house has a flat roof and is across the street from a city park so I have the high ground and large gardening covered. .....98% hipsters/hippies/yuppies who will mostly all die well withing the time that my supplies will last. Any that don't will be kept out of my new domain. (the park) unless they want to come work for me I might consider paying a few to be gardeners.

I would think a city park is where a bunch of those hippies will camp out. Do you think you're going to keep them out of a large city park?

 

[Just Jim]

Call me Mr Negative, but lets say society does collapse and you do hold up in your fort. Do you honestly believe determined people can't get you out of it??

jj

 

[TheHossUSMC]

I have 4 rifles with 4 people who have military experience. Almst no one in Eugene has guns. I was an engineer in the Marines, part of my job was to build bunkers. I was tryin to be funny but I guess you guys didn't get it. I will keep to myself for the first few months of WROL. Let the weak die out and then start to rebuild.

 

[Just Jim]

I have 4 rifles with 4 people who have military experience. Almst no one in Eugene has guns. I was an engineer in the Marines, part of my job was to build bunkers. I was tryin to be funny but I guess you guys didn't get it. I will keep to myself for the first few months of WROL. Let the weak die out and then start to rebuild.

There are alot of gun owners in Eugene, not many liberal gun owners but plenty of gun owners.

jj

 

[TheHossUSMC]

Lets just say I'm not worried about the first few months of WROL. Most of those gun owners in Eugene are either buggin out, buggin in like me, joinuing people who are buggin in or out or will be eliminated in the early days of WROL. Like I said I plan on hunkering down and staying invisible as much as possible. Thats the best way IMO. Secure an area and that small area is no longer WROL.
I was plannin on Buggin out originally but I am a fan of mrlockandload's philosophy on YouTube. You guys should check him out if your thinkin about buggin in.

 

[Just Jim]

Well just a thought now, a city without services will turn real ugly in no time. Who will put out the fires headed your way? I suspect that most cities will be burnt to the ground in a very short time should SHTF.

jj