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After 5 years, no accountability for N.O. gun grab

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Five years later, no accountability for post-Katrina gun grab



    Five years ago this weekend, Hurricane Katrina slammed into southern Louisiana and Mississippi, devastating the City of New Orleans, killing hundreds of people and setting the stage for an outrage that still angers American gun rights advocates...

    ... Into this mess stepped the Second Amendment Foundation and National Rifle Association – and nobody else – to put a stop to the seizures,



    Five years later, no accountability for post-Katrina gun grab - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    Or try this:

    Five years later, no accountability for post-Katrina gun grab - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  2. fyrediver

    fyrediver Seattle Active Member

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    Additionally, the NO PD is claiming that they had "shoot to kill" orders which they believe justifies murdering numerous citizens at the police's hands.

    This was clearly an illegal order. This was not a war zone, this was an American city.

    When I served in the military we were under standing orders to NOT follow illegal orders. I'm sure the PD have something similar in their standing orders and probably in their swearing in ceremony. I'm sure there's a line about defending the constitution in there somewhere. Certainly they have the moral and legal responsibility to not follow illegal orders. Following orders does not absolve one of the responsibility for those actions.

    Disarming lawful citizens and leaving them undefended against the unlawful is merely another crime that these officers and Guardsmen committed. Not returning their stolen firearms is another.

    And I agree, it could easily happen here as well.
     
  3. Decker

    Decker My house Active Member

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    Sad and scary.

    -d
     
  4. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I hope you guys leave comments at the bottom of the article. Fyrediver makes good points.
     
  5. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Washington State Member

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    I would suggest that gun owners start a letter writing campaign to the editorial pages of ALL anti-gun newspapers and ask them why it's so important for everyone to support the 1st Amendment to the Constitution but it's OK for the newspapers to push circumventing the 2nd Amendment.:confused:
     
  6. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Now...put THIS at the bottom of my column where a bunch of people will see it!

    Great idea. :thumbup:
     
  7. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Washington State Member

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    Done!!!:D
     
  8. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I was down there with the Oregon Army National Guard 1-162 C Co and I never saw or heard of any of our soldiers confiscating weapons. In fact I remember hearing our Lt saying he would not help the NOPD forcibly remove people from their houses. The people we evacuated went voluntarily and quite a few stuck it out. Don't paint with such a broad brush, if you have evidence that Guardsmen confiscated weapons. Lets see it and specify the States and units.

    Respectfully,
    Sgt V

    DSC_00085.jpg
     
  9. sweetbeard

    sweetbeard Beavertown OreGUN! New Member

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    I respect your service... but acting like the national guard is so high and mighty.

    bad stuff happened down there and don't deny it because people don't have the names and ssn's of the people who did it.
     
  10. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Wow, if I'm being "high and mighty" when I defend the right to face accusers in court, the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, or how about biblical law from Deuteronomy which said you have to have two witnesses to convict someone of anything?
    If those principles are high and mighty then I'm guilty along with a lot of other members on this forum.

    I never said "bad stuff" didn't happen, I'm just saying I never saw it or heard of it and I was there. Not reading it on internet, seeing it on the "news", or watching Youtube videos that are edited entirely out of context... I was there. First hand testimony of a witness used to mean something in America.

    To play Devil's Advocate, I looked for evidence National Guard troops confiscated weapons or forced people to leave. I found one ABC news segment that briefly mentioned it but still said we could only use persuasion to evict people. All the gun confiscation was done by Police. The segment was badly edited to make it look like the Guard troops were patrolling the streets like it was Iraq with one guy saying he regrets he might have to shoot an American. I presume any American shooting at a Guard unit would be considered hostile and a criminal and would deserve killing in this situation. But, maybe I'm sounding high and mighty again, sorry. Oh yeah, right of self defense, totally forgot that one. If you want to criticize the NOPD, then I'm on your side. In fact I saw a NOPD Sgt driving a brand new Escalade when he would come to coordinate with our leadership. It was said it had been acquired for emergency use. Do I have his name and SSN? No, but I saw it, I was a witness, I was there. If you don't believe me, don't trust me or view me as credible, fine, but why would you trust anyone else's testimony over mine then?

    I won't defend someone if they did something wrong, but saying bad stuff happened so don't deny it is like saying all gun owners are psychotic wanna be killers. All cops are corrupt, all firefighters are arsonists, all union members are in the mafia, blah blah blah.

    No one should be stereotyped into a group and no group should be punished for the sins of one individual. I, again, apologize for sounding high and mighty, but I won't apologize for standing up for myself or my fellow soldiers when we are unfairly accused.
     
  11. fyrediver

    fyrediver Seattle Active Member

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    My deepest and most sincere apologies to those who did honorably serve the communities affected. The number of individuals who committed these crimes was extremely small. Certainly the majority of people assigned to that region did not conduct themselves poorly.

    5 years later, we're just now starting to see the investigations and prosecutions taking place. It's obvious that these crimes started high in the chain of command. The officials issuing the orders need to be held accountable as well as the people carrying them out. It shouldn't be only the people who followed the illegal orders who pay.
     
  12. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab" by Gordon Hutchinson & Todd Masson makes several claims about the National Guard seizing weapons

    e.g. from page 169

    "...forced their way into private residences, subdued citizens by force, and confiscated legally owned firearms with no probably cause and without powers of warrant. These abuses were perpetrated by government authorities such as New Orleans Police Department, [...] various state National Guard units and many others too numerous to mention."

    Of course, they don't quote many sources. In fact, I can't find a single footnote in the book, which makes their claims very doubtful. You can search it at Amazon.com.

    Interestingly the book also claims that the 'Louisiana National Guard' has some law-enforcement powers because it is an agent of the state government.
     
  13. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    The result of the event here was a law that prohibited any federal persons or anyone acting on the behalf of the federal government from seizing fire arms during an emergency unless they otherwise illegally posessed the firearm.. And I do have the actual text somewhere.. and I will find and post it.

    edit:

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR05441: Here is the link to the law in question..

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:samdt4615:

    And the specific part of the bill in question.