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Advice from a Crapitol official

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by diagoras, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. diagoras

    diagoras Prozanskistan Member

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    I ran into a friend of ours ("Amico Nostra") at the 1551 hearing, who works at the Crapitol in a fairly
    high position of responsibility. He supports our cause (and isn't supposed to say so, of course) and
    he had some very interesting suggestions.l

    First, don't bring guns into the Crapitol for hearings. That seems like it would be something a Crapitol
    employee would say, knee-jerk fashion, of course - but his background for it wasn't what you'd think.
    Like I said, he's a friend of ours. What he said was, that a lot of who's down there - visitors, LegiSluts,
    you name it - are urban nitwits who have NEVER SEEN A GUN IN THEIR LIFE, and just go into a total
    panic when they see one of us open-carrying. Now, ordinarily I wouldn't care how many sheeple
    get scared or how badly, but we're trying to influence legislation here, so it's something to think about.
    Sending brainless urban Mommy and her brats, who've come down there to stare at the big marble
    walls and trinket displays, scurrying in panic for help, probably causes headaches for legislators
    and everyone else.

    I told him the debate over open carry in the Crapitol goes on among gun owners all the time, and I don't
    think he even disagreed with the idea of scaring liberals to death in general; he just thinks that the
    disruption it causes inside the Crapitol does more harm than good, on balance, as far as our
    influencing legislation goes.

    The other thing he said was more interesting: we need to take a lesson from the "Hispanics".
    He said, they come down there *totally* organized (You wouldn't think...) - they arrive in orderly
    fashion, they have "monitors" or coordinators to get "their" people to the various rooms, they
    have "communicators" to get the word out on hearings, they have specific legislators targeted
    in various ways (don't tempt me...) and according to him, as a result they *get* their legislation
    passed. .

    I pointed out to him that we face a hostile environment to begin with down there, with the leftist 'Rats
    in control, whereas the latter just fall gushing and cooing with reverence all over the "Hispanics", so
    the latter have an advantage over us - and he agreed, but he said that nevertheless their high
    degree of organization and orderliness is of considerable benefit to them when they do show
    up to lobby or protest.

    Anyway, I thought I'd pass those two things on...

    (yeah, I know it's like herding cats, trying to get gun owners "Organized"... it's been that way
    since the Revolution; George Washington had trouble getting the militia to all shoot in
    the same direction, even)

    The good news in any case is, all those big marble slabs that make up the building, are just sort of
    tacked up there and are *totally* vulnerable to an earthquake. So when we get the big plate
    shift out there in the Pacific, the whole thing is coming down in a big pile of expensive rubble.
     
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  2. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Far too true, at least it isn't like herding spastic cats... yet.


    This is an excellent point.
     
  3. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    One thing I learned from every history class I ever took: Groups who are organized and disciplined will always lay waste to those who are not. From the Ptolomaic kings of egypt to the roman conquest of gaul, small, well organized regional powers grew and gobbled up their neighbors, some creating empires that even the most power hungry could only dream of.
     
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  4. Steve M

    Steve M Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Where is this place that you can go to live and never see a police officer?

    Oh.... what you mean is that they've previously only seen guns on people wearing special clothing and government issued badges. Heaven forbid we give them a reason to start judging gun carrying people by the content of their character rather than their outward appearance.

    We do need to get organized, but something tells me that gun owners tend to be more likely to have jobs that they need to show up at. I can't go rushing off to Salem each morning SB 1551 is scheduled or when Elvis and buddies want to turn a gun rally into a church service with a Confederate flag on display. If you want greater participation stop chastising folks for open carrying and keep gun rallies about gun rights.
     
  5. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    It's not that the hispanics are organized in a traditional sense. They are basically brought in by political operatives to be used as human pawns to push an agenda.
    They are simply picked up and bussed in the same way democrats have bussed in homeless bums in a past to create a body count.
    A couple of raids by ICE would solve their involvement in a heartbeat.
     
    mancat and (deleted member) like this.
  6. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    You lost my respect here...

    That is like saying "You may have a right, but it is socially unacceptable to partake in that right, so don't partake in that right."

    Just be respectful, and for god sakes smile at the kids. Be curtious and let your actions show that you are not a threat. You don't mean to do harm, in fact you mean NOT to do harm. It is as simple as that. Anyone who is going to listen to us legitimately will see this. Those that are hell bent on eliminating the guns and not the human element, will not see this. But we don't need or care what people think if they can't reason.

    If you know me at all, I have a gun. ALWAYS. If I am not allowed for some reason to go somewhere with a gun I either 1) find a legal precedent allowing me to go or 2) Don't go. It is that important to me. I OC everywhere.

    Don't tell me what I ought or ought not do when it comes to my rights, rights that I have been infringed upon, bought and payed for by taxation. You disgust me.


    Eagle
     
  7. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Eagle, you might have missed the part where he said it was an acquaintance that suggests these are good ideas. I can completely understand why his acquaintance would say such things, but in the end I feel it is just too bad for the cheese connoisseurs and they will have to learn to open their minds a little. Their feelings are not my responsibility. I am with you about carrying wherever you go or not going at all, but it does pay to be objective when reading.
     
  8. diagoras

    diagoras Prozanskistan Member

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    I didn't get the impression the guy was saying "don't bring guns into the Capitol, period" - it was more like, "don't do it when you're trying to influence a vote on your own legislation". (frankly I think he LIKES watching liberals get scared...)

    Good question how somebody could exist in such a vacuum that they've never seen a gun. These urban nitwits are unbelievably insular, though. It never occurred to me that they could be THAT bad off, but they never cease to amaze me...
     
  9. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    Didn't miss. I just feel that even if someone feels the need to relay a message about someone telling me where I ought or ought not carry doesn't deserve the time of day. Not trying to be offensive. I just lose all respect for he "who works at the Capitol in a fairly high position of responsibility" if he is wiling to compromise. I similarly lose respect for those who wish to be soap box for this individual. It goes back to rights and privileges. If you think I ought not bring it where I am free to do so then you are not supporting the Second Amendment, you are supporting a social dictated privilege.

    Eagle
     
  10. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm ... turning the capitol building into an armed militia camp - yep, that'll bring the voters to our side! I've just never understood why people need to display a gun to engage in a discussion.
     
  11. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Well sure, if they are displaying the gun in order to start the discussion then you may have a point. If you are like Eagle and it is your everyday activity to OC regardless of location then you are engaging in the exact same thinking and behavior of the gun prohibitionists. You can also point to gun prohibitionists 'need' to wear their affiliation badges, pins, ribbons, t-shirts, etc. Do they 'need' to wear those at the capitol? Or is it more of an added visual reminder of their political stance and an exercise of their Right to free expression, the same as OCing or CCing a firearm. I do support their Right to wear whatever they want and I usually have the sense to see that it really isn't my place to tell them what to do.

    If you are going to be honest and call people out for something you don't agree with, at least be consistent.
     
  12. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    If I go to a government hearing to lobby for my position, I don't open carry for the same reason I don't wear a tutu. I want people to understand that I am an everyday, normal person, just like them. I want them to understand that I'm a person they can be comfortable listening to. I DO NOT want to get in their face, make them angry, or scare them to death. I want them to listen to me and understand what I'm saying. I DO NOT want them to automatically be on the defensive. People don't listen when they are being defensive.

    Yes, you have a right to open carry. Yes, you can annoy and irritate the people who make laws that govern your behavior. You have a right to say any lunatic thing you want to. You have a right to piss people off. And I have a right to tell you you're being an idiot, and that you're hurting our cause.
     
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  13. rumblebee1967

    rumblebee1967 Bellingham Active Member

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    Gun Owners need to decide if they want to help the cause or prove a point. I believe the latter most often does not help the cause.
     
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  14. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    We don't ask the blacks to look white when they march for rights, we don't ask the gays to stop holding hands and kissing when they gather for rights, we didn't ask the women to dress and act like men when they demanded rights. It has worked for them. We should not have to appear disarmed when demanding our rights to be armed.
     
  15. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    :funnypoint: :rofl1:
     
  16. evltwn

    evltwn Gold Hill Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You lost me at the name calling and racial innuendos, Chief. Stay on point. Those who present their message in a coherent fashion get heard. The rest is just "blah blah blah" Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from those "Hispanics".
     
  17. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Yes, go ahead and laugh. I've seen someone try to herd one spastic cat and it wasn't pretty. The thought of herding more than one is too terrible to contemplate.
     
  18. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    This is one of the very reasons I DON'T change my daily routine. They see that I am a normal, everyday, 25 year old man, polite and kind, smiles at the kids, holds the door open regardless of your views, kind of guy.

    Saying that I ought not go with a firearm is adhering to the belief that my 2A rights are limited. Not rights. Just privileges.

    I don't think that it is a lunatic thing to say to stand up for your civil rights. And make no joke about it. It is a civil right.
    Your right, you do, it is your right. That right is protected by the 2A. The very right you seem to think should be limited.


    Maybe it's because your East of Portland. They seem to think that the mere sight of a firearm is reasonable suspicion a crime has been committed. If that were true I could then see why you wouldn't want firearms on peoples sides in the Capital. But I doubt that's it.


    I have never had anyone that has seen my firearm ever came up to me not agree with my resolve after talking with me. Ever. And I have had a fair amount talk to me.



    Eagle
     
  19. Steve M

    Steve M Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    This is from a recent article by Robert Farago at TTAG

     
  20. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Wow... Cue the kitties, they be hissin' already. ;)