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Active Shooters

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Thebastidge, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    Kudos to the Washington County Sheriff's Department and to Sergeant Greg Kisor for publishing common-sense advice:

    Sheriff's Office News

    http://www.co.washington.or.us/Sheriff/News/upload/The-5-Stages-of-an-Active-Shooter-2.pdf

    Key Point:

    "Once the shooter opens fire, immediate action needs to be taken. The Active Shooter will continue to kill until he runs out of victims or ammunition, or is stopped. This suspect is unique, because he is fully dedicated to going for the “top score,” which is measured in kills.

    The sooner an on- or off-duty officer or citizen intervenes with an effective, efficient act of courage, the fewer casualties there will be. In past incidents, active shooters have been thwarted by police officers, security guards, school teachers and students. One principal recently died successfully stopping an active shooter in a Wisconsin school. There is a risk in doing something, but the greatest risk lies in doing nothing."
     
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  2. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    In a time where more nut-balls are trying to Go Out with a high score I fear for those targeted. I often read that it's the older folks who take an active role in attempting to stop the carnage. Now, that's anecdotal because I don't read every report on the subject, but I seem to see people 30+ as the selfless ones who step in to stop the killing more often than those who are younger. Is it wisdom or a change in generational conditioning?

    Altruism runs thin in the young, I think.
     
  3. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    As a 28 year old who has no faith in his generation as a whole, I can assure you it is a change in generational conditioning. However, I found this specific deficiency varies from region to region. In the south, folks my age are completely different that those here in the PNW......
     
  4. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's a lack of moral altruism as much as it's a total lack of effectiveness. I'm 41 and MANY of my age peers and younger are literally helpless in the face of confrontation or physical hardship, especially unexpected pain and fear.

    They've been conditioned by a soft life to react like sheep with panic rather than to confront their fears, pain, and exhaustion and work through it. They simply are not manly men. They've been treated like girls all their life and are more conerned with their clothes and their hair gel than with being able to protect their wife aand their children. They avoid responsibility and look down upon it (sometimes for good reasons, considering our current societal disdain for the working man) until it's too late.
     
  5. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. That's what is taught to my eldest in school; run, turn in your friends when they do wrong, the police are there to protect you. All horrible lessons that we have to disprove constantly.

    For my own part I can say that in an active shooter situation I'm going to move to defend my family first. They don't have the discipline to drop/cover when shots ring out. I've been in enough bad neighbourhoods and situations that it's hard for me NOT to react. I also read alot of tactics discussion about 'what if there's more than one'...who cares. Kill one and the others will scatter. Self-preservation will usually kick in.
     
  6. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I think it probably has more to do with old age comes experience... that experience may cover being shot at especially in the cases of veterans, who realize action is the best way to avoid getting shot, vs standing still and pretending to be an IDPA target.

    I've noticed this in bouncing... it really takes a while to grasp the understanding of when it's time to use violence to solve a problem and how much violence it will take to actually solve that problem. And yes, this usually means hitting first.
     
  7. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. There's plenty of aggressive young men. We just don't have protectively aggressive young men in the ratio we used to. We have aggresive and predatory young men.

    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

    We're training manliness and *usefulness* out of the maority of young men. The ones who retain their masculinity are feral, for the most part. It's important for dangerous old men to channel the natural aggression of young men. 3 or more generations of single mothers are not taming the men. It's letting them loose half wild.
     
  8. macdougall29

    macdougall29 Newberg, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    I for one am already "training" my young daughter situational awareness:paranoid:, common sense, self-defence etc... in a variety of circumstances. Am I worried? Yes, everyday I see news about young women being assaulted, raped and worse! What I find ironic is that she is now showing signs of being tougher and better prepared than many of the young men around her in school and on her sports teams. Too many of those young mens parents are hands off liberal types that teach sensitivity instead of courage, strength, courtesy, manners, etc... I was raised to respect women and your elders and I will pass this along!

    If I can I will groom her to be one of the sheep dogs instead of a sheep :thumbup:
     
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  9. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    From the Sheep, Sheepdogs and wolves article:

    I think this is the crux of my argument. Without the experience of actually being involved in a violent situation, it can be a difficult uncertain jump that can cause most people to freeze. It is very similar to the bystander effect...
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Solid piece of information. I have no disagreement with it.
     
  11. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    So the guy in Manhattan the other day: NOT an active shooter. Psychotic break, whatever- he snapped, shot his ex-boss and walked away until two NYC cops got turned onto him. Then he apparently did a suicide by cop routine.

    The news -as ever half retarded- reported it as ana ctive shooter situations based entirely upon the body count of wounded, all of which seem to have been shot BY THE COPS.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/nyregion/police-decision-to-shoot-in-midtown-left-9-wounded.html

    Just How Many Bystanders Did New York Police Shoot? - National - The Atlantic Wire

    But they're "the only ones" qualified to save us. We're in deep shizzt if that were truly the case.

    Don't get me wrong- he pointed a gun at them, they were justfied in firing. I just wish they were BETTER at it. You and I wouldn't get qualified immunity- every single one of those accidental woundings would have been a crime AND a civil suit.

    (Really? R-e-t-a-r-d-e-d is a filtered word?)
     
  12. enjr4

    enjr4 Renton, WA Active Member

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    Well, I my opinion (we all know about opinions), it is the way our kids are taught to respond to aggression. We now have the second generation of kids taught to be passive in all ways. IN our schools they are taught to respond by turning away and calling for help. They are taught not to fight back ever. IF confronted either run away or take it and then turn in the aggressor. If they fight back they are in as much trouble as the villain.

    After school they get into the real world where the rules are totally different. They are in a world where they are on their own; without a bunch of teachers and school LE keep the lid on things. Let’s face it; our LE is not there to keep you from getting mugged, or raped, or having the crap beat out of you. They are there to write reports and try and catch the BG. And, it scares the heck out to them. They don’t know what to do! They have been taught to be sheep standing in the shadow of the sheepdog. And mostly the sheepdog is no longer around.

    They don’t know how to handle it. Some get self-defense training and learn how to take care of themselves. Some join the military and learn it there. Most just try to live with it and hope for the best. A few to nuts and a few (without training) get a gun and go off the rails when confronted.

    In raising our four kids we had a rule. Don’t start it; but, if it happens, win it. They will never get into any trouble at home for standing up for themselves. Basically, if someone smacks you, respond with overwhelming force. We, mom and dad, would take care of the school problem. So far it has worked out.

    Ed
     
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