ACP too hot?

[po18guy]

And nothing wrong with going to 185 grain HPs - a tried and true weight for defense. I checked Wolff and they offer only mag springs for the HK - does it have a woven or braided wire recoil spring?

Carbine? A little pricey, but the MechTech upper unit will handle .45 Super, even .460 Rowland. But, no uppers to fit 4506 or HK grip frames that I am aware of.

Find the hidden 1911...

 

[po18guy]

MechTech Systems | Pistol Carbine Conversion 1911 Glock XDM

 

[fstdraw]

Cool set up!
I was thinking more like just buying a Marlin, Ruger or some other carbine or rifle that will shoot my semi-hot .45 loads.
I'm sure any of the commercial .45 ACP carbines will shoot these just fine.

 

[po18guy]

Cool set up!
I was thinking more like just buying a Marlin, Ruger or some other carbine or rifle that will shoot my semi-hot .45 loads.
I'm sure any of the commercial .45 ACP carbines will shoot these just fine.

The camp carbines are escalating in price! Maybe Ruger then?

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Before tearing them down, do a quick batch of 5.3 & 5.5 grain loads as a quick workup, and stop wherever you start to see signs of pressure. That will help tell you whether you *need* to tear them down or not.

 

[fstdraw]

I will check into the Ruger. I also thought there was a local company making a 9mm, .45 ACP carbine that broke down to fit into a backpack. TNW?

If I break down 50 bullets per week, by the time I'm in my late 60's I'll have them all done.

 

[po18guy]

I will check into the Ruger. I also thought there was a local company making a 9mm, .45 ACP carbine that broke down to fit into a backpack. TNW?

If I break down 50 bullets per week, by the time I'm in my late 60's I'll have them all done.

If you shoot 50 per week, you will maintain your eyes and reflexes.

 

[fstdraw]

BINGO! Best idea yet.

 

[po18guy]

I will check into the Ruger. I also thought there was a local company making a 9mm, .45 ACP carbine that broke down to fit into a backpack. TNW?

If I break down 50 bullets per week, by the time I'm in my late 60's I'll have them all done.

Buy some 45 defense loads off the shelf. 230 grain. Compare the recoil - I'll bet it's nearly the same.

 

[Hatman1793]

5.7 grains of WW231 even using a 200 LSWC bullet is pretty steamy.

4.1-4.2 grains of Bullseye with a 230 FMJ is a classic 50 yard target load. 4.0 grains of Bullseye with a 200 grain LSWC bullet is the classic 25 yard target load.
Similar loads with WW231 should be 5.0 grains & 4.6 grains.
Why beat up a great gun like the 4506?

 

[nfield4]

If they are just to hot for your regular pistol, You might consider a hi point 45 carbine or a 45acp cylinder for a ruger blackhawk (45 colt variety). They will enjoyably digest these rounds.

 

[fstdraw]

Well, I did breakdown about 750 bullets. I'm reloading some of them as 5.2 to 5.4 loads in the 231. Sure is a lot of work but the good news is with the extra powder, I get more rounds! See, every cloud has a silver lining.

The rest of the 5.7 gr. W231 ACP's will probably go to Alaska for my oldest son. He shoots .45 and bigger seems better there.

I'd like to get a .45 carbine but would have trouble pulling the trigger for a Hi point.

 

[po18guy]

Find the surface of the 4506 slide which contacts the frame at full recoil . Then, put a thin coat of Dykem blue (aka Prussian blue) on that surface and fire a few rounds. If none of the blue dye is transferred to the frame, then those loads are not causing slide-frame impact. As well, if there are no pressure signs, then you are very likely good to go. Even if there is some contact, you can upgrade the recoil spring for less than $10 from Wolff. All of this presupposes that there is no sign of excess pressure.

 

[fstdraw]

Good idea on the Dykem. I've checked all the reasonable ways for over-pressure, none found. No primer back outs, brass is landing in a neat pile (no AK 47 landing in the next county stuff), and really it shoots fine in the 4506, just a bit harsh in the HK45. I'm being a pussy I know but I want to have confidence in the reloads and I want everyone that shoots the guns to have a good experience.

 

[po18guy]

The problem with lightweight, i.e. polymer, guns is that they are lightweight. Good for carry, not so good for extended shooting. The HK is a fine weapon, but simply has far less mass to resist recoil impulse than does the all steel 4506. Ever shoot a charter Arms .44 Bulldog? 19 ounces and a 246 grain slug. Good if you are saving your life, but simply punishing at the range. The same load out of a model 24 or 29 Smith is very mild. The difference is the weight/mass of the guns.

You may want to maintain two loads: steel and polymer. Now, your loads are fine according to some manuals, and hot according to others. An awful lot of this is legalistic, but there are surprising differences from one gun to its identical brother. Pressures can be different and accuracy quite different. Speer used to publish this in their manuals, using two "identical" S&W revolvers, showing the substantial ballistic differences from gun to gun.

Lawyers? Sure. Look at some of the .44 Special and .45 Auto Rim loads in the Speer #8 manual. A 250gr .44 Spl lead SWC at 1198 (1200) fps? A 200gr jacketed SP in .45 Auto Rim at 1330 fps using 11.5gr Unique? You can bet those loads caused some consternation when pressures were eventually checked. Well, manual #9 put the kibosh on that.

So, heavy loads in the heavy gun and lighter loads in the light one?

 

[Caveman Jim]

To be honest I started loading these a bit hot to puncture steel helmets like a scene from
the William Holden movie, The Devils Brigade. You don't want to know. I should stick to
watching The Wild Bunch!

Anyway, thanks again.

I practice with blue helmets...

 

[Caveman Jim]

You know, it's practical training.

 

[ma96782]

IIRC the S&W 4506 is an all metal firearm. As for the HK. Well, I seem to remember somewhere that it wasn't. Course, I could be wrong. Anyway....weight is generally a good thing when speaking of absorbing some of the felt recoil. Not to mention : grip angle, the shape of the grip (how well it fills your hands), slide weight, bore height over the grip too, etc....

AND, I'd probably work on that load too. But, that's just me.

Aloha, Mark

 

[fstdraw]

Weight is making all the difference. The load shoots accurately in both guns, wouldn't change that. However I am going to spend the time to work up a good load for the HK45. Such an accurate and reliable gun, a shame not to find the correct diet.

 

[fstdraw]

So, I did find a great load for the HK45. I loaded up 5.0, 5.2, and 5.4 gr. of 231 and find all of those to shoot well.
I've been loading 5.2 gr. as my favorite load. I did find the 5.4 gr. of 231 to be nearly recoil equivalent to Magtech .45 ACP with 230 gr. round nose ball. Comfortable yet authoritative!

I'm guessing I can use H 38 as a direct replacement to the 231.

My thanks to all the great suggestions.