ACP too hot?

[fstdraw]

Boy o boy, think I did something stupid.

I've been loading .45 ACP for years and not had any problems. I loaded a couple of thousand for my S/W 4506.
230 gr. FMJ ball, Winchester or CCI primer, 5.7 gr. of W231. Always shot great in the 4506. However in my HK45
that load seems too hot, more recoil than necessary, at least in my opinion. As I recheck the reloading data, seems
this load is off some charts. A couple of books calling for 4.4 to 5.5 gr. 231.

Do I need to pull all these bullets and start again?

Thank you.

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[mkwerx]

Sounds like you reinvented the .45 Super?

 

[DizzyJ]

Boy o boy, think I did something stupid.

I've been loading .45 ACP for years and not had any problems. I loaded a couple of thousand for my S/W 4506.
230 gr. FMJ ball, Winchester or CCI primer, 5.7 gr. of W231. Always shot great in the 4506. However in my HK45
that load seems too hot, more recoil than necessary, at least in my opinion. As I recheck the reloading data, seems
this load is off some charts. A couple of books calling for 4.4 to 5.5 gr. 231.

Do I need to pull all these bullets and start again?

Thank you.

Just a quick internet search says you're at the top, but not necessarily overboard.

Of course you can always drop down and work your way up.

Is it possible the OAL is too long and you're jamming into the lands on the HK?

 

[po18guy]

Any signs of pressure, i.e. flattened, extruded or cratered primers; bulged case heads, early extraction, deep ejector dents in the casings? Remember that the H&K is substantially lighter than the 4506 (27 oz. versus about 39-40 ounces), with more weight on top and little below. Thus the firing impulse has a proportionately greater effect, and the slide velocity may also be greater. And, as you empty the mag, the HK loses a greater proportion of its overall weight than the Smith.

What you might do is reserve these rounds for the 4506 and begin anew with a load more suited to the lightweright HK.

 

[deadeye]

Boy o boy, think I did something stupid.

I've been loading .45 ACP for years and not had any problems. I loaded a couple of thousand for my S/W 4506.
230 gr. FMJ ball, Winchester or CCI primer, 5.7 gr. of W231. Always shot great in the 4506. However in my HK45
that load seems too hot, more recoil than necessary, at least in my opinion. As I recheck the reloading data, seems
this load is off some charts. A couple of books calling for 4.4 to 5.5 gr. 231.

Do I need to pull all these bullets and start again?

Thank you.

Speer says for TMJ 5.6-6.2gr
for lead 5.1-5.6gr

Lee book 4.2-5.3gr
paperwork that came with dies 4.5-5.1gr

 

[TTSX]

I had this same issue when I loaded with 6.0 grains of universal. pretty snappy so you know what I did? In my infinite wisdom I dropped to 5.5 grains. I made bunny farts that barely cycled and my chronograph says 650ft/second. They're now my worn out USP rounds. If the pressure signs aren't there, just shoot and enjoy

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

choot'm!!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Just a quick internet search says you're at the top, but not necessarily overboard.

Of course you can always drop down and work your way up.

Is it possible the OAL is too long and you're jamming into the lands on the HK?

Yea, eyeball some previously chambered rounds of the respective guns. If neck tension isn't good the bullet will get jammed down into the case.. increasing pressure by four gubbins.

 

[gmerkt]

However well those worked in the 4506, 5.7 gr. of 231 with 230 gr. bullet is an over-charge. According to the Hodgdon online loading data. Which I do not consider conservative. They might've felt okay in the 4506 but over-charges are hard on guns.

A couple of thousand, whew. I'd hate to have to re-do that. But I'm of the nature that once I find out a mistake has been made, I'm compelled to go back and re-do the work. It's not so bad if you have a collet puller. You won't have to decap the live primers, just dial up the decapping pin when you resize. You won't have to go the full stroke in resizing anyway, just as far as the seating depth of the bullet. My approach would be not to do them all at once, do so many at a time. Good fill-in work during the Covid virus thing. Trying to make lemonade out of lemons, but good luck.

 

[cigars]

Don't use force, get a bigger hammer I mean get a heavier recoil spring.

 

[nammac]

Hornady Tenth Edition shows 5.7gr of 231 as a max load good for 800 FPS... The 4506 is an appreciably heavy pistol, which might explain the difference in felt recoil...

 

[nammac]

And Lyman Load Data shows 5.8gr of 231 as the max load

 

[gmerkt]

Well, who are you gonna believe? Hodgdon is the source of 231 powder now, here is their data:



Hornady doesn't show pressure data. The Lyman data has a pressure of 16,200, which with a higher powder charge is 600 CUP lower than Hodgdon.

What do I do when I find conflicting data? I go with the lower number. But that's rarely a problem for me as I seldom load at max. levels.

 

[DizzyJ]

Well, who are you gonna believe? Hodgdon is the source of 231 powder now, here is their data:

View attachment 711890
Hornady doesn't show pressure data. The Lyman data has a pressure of 16,200, which with a higher powder charge is 600 CUP lower than Hodgdon.

What do I do when I find conflicting data? I go with the lower number. But that's rarely a problem for me as I seldom load at max. levels.

Well, who are you gonna believe? Hodgdon is the source of 231 powder now, here is their data:

View attachment 711890
It's pretty common to get different numbers from different sources. Different lot numbers of powder, different primers, cases and the gun being used for the data.
Hornady doesn't show pressure data. The Lyman data has a pressure of 16,200, which with a higher powder charge is 600 CUP lower than Hodgdon.

What do I do when I find conflicting data? I go with the lower number. But that's rarely a problem for me as I seldom load at max. levels.

Well, who are you gonna believe? Hodgdon is the source of 231 powder now, here is their data:

View attachment 711890
Hornady doesn't show pressure data. The Lyman data has a pressure of 16,200, which with a higher powder charge is 600 CUP lower than Hodgdon.

What do I do when I find conflicting data? I go with the lower number. But that's rarely a problem for me as I seldom load at max. levels.

It's pretty common to get different data from different sources. Different lot numbers of powder, different primers, different Bullets, cases and the gun used for the testing.

 

[DizzyJ]

This stupid quote button is going to be the death of me....

 

[po18guy]

Again, lacking pressure signs, it is a safe load. The HK is quite light for a full-sized 45 and the heaviest part (the slide/barrel) recipropcate, making "felt recoil" all the sharper. Simple physics. No pressure signs, shoot away!

 

[41mag]

Speaking for a moment about *my* loads in that range with similar recipe:
granted there's variation between publishers of the data;

Making an assumption for a moment, I've got some loads that I believe are within spec for the 45 ACP. Granted they are near the upper end of the loading chart, yet within SAAMI range. I note in using in 5" 1911, they are 'accurate enough' and 'pleasant enough' that I can manage falling plate rack with some consistency of hits and enjoyment.

Loading into a Commander length 1911, same load, same targets, my miss ratio increases considerably and my 'pleasurable enjoyment' factor decreases considerably.

With no over pressure signs, and no chronograph data, I continue to use them in the longer heavier model, expecting to run out of them soon enough.

 

[fstdraw]

Thank you everyone for the tips, advise, precautions and kind expressions (as opposed to "good one idiot").
I think I'm going to unload a few each week for self-punishment,
then load some lighter loads. Like you guys I've got thousands of cases and
components so I can load light when I want.

No over pressure signs.
I might just buy a .45 ACP carbine of some kind and blow them off in that.

To be honest I started loading these a bit hot to puncture steel helmets like a scene from
the William Holden movie, The Devils Brigade. You don't want to know. I should stick to
watching The Wild Bunch!

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Pete F]

I have found, in general, that newer books are more cautious with load data. More lawyers, less fps/pressure. I find this funny since most of the newer pistols are made to handle +P loads. I wrote about this in another thread using the .38 Special as a example. Older books use more powder and achieve higher velocity. The .38 Special of old, 20's to late 30's, have greater velocity that they do now. How do you explain why the older .38's were more powerful/faster that new.38's? It wasn't until WWII that they started to download the.38 Special. This isn't true with all calibers, but the .38 Special is a great example.

 

[oremike]

231 is a fast powder and can make for snappy recoil in lighter guns, one thing you might try is a slower powder like auto-comp. that should slow the perceived recoil impulse down and make it feel less snappy.