About to buy .22 and .223 cans, potential trust issues with Stepfather as trustee?

TippyTop · Jan 24, 2013

Hey everyone, I'm about to submit all the forms for a .22lr SilencerCo Sparrow and .223 SilencerCo Saker and I'm going to be putting these into a trust. Since I'm in the military and I could potentially move to a nasty state like California I'm putting my Stepdad as a trustee since he lives in WA.

Well I just recently found out back in the 80's my stepdad shot a deer with his AR-15 (.223) without knowing it was illegal and ended up having to goto court, his rifle got confiscated for 2 months. Since then he has bought many many new guns and done many background checks...all coming back clean and he walks away with his new weapon. Recently he was going to buy a pistol for his mother and apparently received a packet from the FBI saying he was denied and the only reason he can think of is from his deer incident.

This leads me to my main question, if I put him as a trustee and he uses them is this considered illegal or a big no no? He is a law abiding citizen and owns many guns, but ever since this whole background check thing it really has me thinking. Have any of you ever heard of anything like this? I'll try to provide everyone with as much details as I can, and all help is greatly appreciated!

-Tippytop

TippyTop · Jan 24, 2013

...And as far as the FBI sending a packet, I don't know if he said FBI by mistake or meant another agency. I'm heading up there tomorrow and I'll hash that out and update this thread. Tequila is his best friend sometimes

PDXSparky · Jan 25, 2013

You need to get a good look at that "packet" and see what it really says. I'd wait to send in that paperwork until after that.

PBinWA · Jan 25, 2013

PDXSparky said:
You need to get a good look at that "packet" and see what it really says. I'd wait to send in that paperwork until after that.

All NICS denials are supposed to get the "packet". You need to follow up and find out why he was denied. They make mistakes sometimes.

Maybe you should see if your Mom will be the trustee.

308 · Jan 25, 2013

You really need to talk to a lawyer on this one.
At the very least, read through all the regs in quicken will maker regarding a RLT

ThePhonMan · Jan 25, 2013

You probably already know this but...

As the lawyer who set up my NFA trust told me repeatedly, "...Your NFA trust does not exempt any member of the trust, who would be considered a ‘Prohibited Person' under the NFA, from inappropriately possessing one of your Trust items. If this occurred it could render your trust invalid and would place you in jeopardy of violating the NFA..." And that's bad, m'kay.

Read his doc package carefully and if you have ANY questions, that's why there's a phone book full of lawyers.

As was stated earlier, they do make mistakes so it may be something that can be easily corrected or fixed with some effort.

Good luck.

TippyTop · Jan 25, 2013

Thanks for all the responses everyone, I just got up here and I'll scan the packet and report back with what is really in it!

TippyTop · Jan 26, 2013

So he received a packet from the U.S. Department of Justice national instant criminal background check. "Your denial indicates that either you or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features has been matched with the following federally prohibitive criteria under Title 18, United States Code, Sections 921 (a) (20) and 922 (g) (1) : A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

Now let me remind you, he has bought many many weapons and hasn't had an issue since with background checks. Have they messed up with background check or have they increased difficulty of background checks as of late?

Also I've tried to check but does anyone know the punishment for shooting a deer with. 223? I don't think it is imprisonment 1-2 years? He explained that the charges were dropped because of a plea bargain and he had to pay a $1400 fine. Would that still mean he was charged as a felon? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

308 · Jan 26, 2013

There was a story the other day on the news (perhaps Lars) that mentioned the problem with the FBI background check during the recent high purchasing activity. They said one FBI case worker had a stack of 80 background checks that were mistakenly let through and now he has to deal with them.

I cannot imagine the mess there...either it was a NICS mistake for someone who is legal, or there were prohibited sales. Either way, that poor bastage has to go door to door and do what? Confiscate? Require the purchaser to return to the dealer and get his $$ back on a now 'used' gun? It's a mess.

Perhaps your stepdad fell thru one of those cracks. Sounds like a BS deal considering one can use a .223 to hunt deer in Orygun.

ThePhonMan · Jan 27, 2013

He'll need to request his court records and determine what exactly he plead to. Based on what you have described, odds are, if it was his first offense and treated as a wildlife rules violation it wouldn't automatically rise to felony status but who knows how the DA played it. There's also the possibility that there's more to the story.

What state was he in when he dispatched the deer with an unauthorized caliber? Did he get his rifle back after they impounded it? If he did get the rifle back, that might be your best sign that this rejection is a mistake since most states use every excuse they can make up to NOT return guns.

I worked with a few prosecutors in another state in a past life. One was really good at getting gang bangers to plead to different chargers and gave them credit for time served on the first offense because the odd statue she used would allow her to prosecute the individual as a class A felony if they got caught again for the same crime. Other prosecutors would take whatever they could get and didn't much care about the next time so repeat offenders used the revolving door with them. This is where DA discretion and charging variability makes it difficult to assess without court records.

Good luck.

TippyTop · Jan 27, 2013

He shot the deer in Washington, and he said he had the tags but when he shot it, but it wasn't deer season. I'm going to meet with Chip from Cascade Arsenal today and set up my trust but at this time I'm going to leave his name off the trust until this all gets sorted out. He is one of this "the less the government knows about me the better!" So until he sends in his finger print card and sees if they messed up I'm going to keep his name off the trust. I've got at least 6 months to hash all this out and another year before I have to PCS somewhere else for the military. Thanks so much for everyone's input, its more than I thought I was going to receive!

TippyTop · Jan 28, 2013

Saker and Sparrow here I come!

Dogfish · Jan 29, 2013

Chip is a good guy, but he isn't an attorney.

TippyTop · Jan 31, 2013

Oh I know that, we both decided that it would probably be best if we kept him off until he sorts it out.

TippyTop · Feb 13, 2013

Alright, so instead of dealing with the fingerprint cards since he is so busy with managing the farm, he went and tried to apply for the same .38 pistol at the same store. This time his background came back clean and he walked out of the store with it. It seems as it was just an issue on the FBI's part and now I feel ok putting him on the trust.