A Tale of Two Uppers... Sanity Check my AR build plan?

Diamondback · Oct 2, 2016

Many of you guys have seen various bits about the build I'm working up around my NWFA lower, so I figured it's time to put the whole spec sheet together--and to share another option I just got an email about on the off-chance you guys might want to check it out.

Right now I have everything but castle-nut and stock to complete my lower in-hand, so I'm pretty much down to the top half.

Part selection philosophy:
--I'm looking for short OAL as much as possible, the house I'm moving into I'd swear was built by dwarves and I completely fill its doorways. At the same time I like long handguards, both for safety of having extra barrier between hot barrel group and everything else and for longer sight-radius on BUIS.
--Light sensitive eyes make both optics and flash suppression sensitive and important considerations--we need to assume I may be firing in no-light conditions, and I have to wear polarized lenses just in normal room-light.
--While whiz-bang optics and ambi controls are nice, it's important to me to learn the basics first--iron sights and regular right-hand controls, because in an SHTF scenario I may not have the luxury of sticking with what's been specially optimized for me rather than using what happens to be available, or batteries may die or any of the zillion other ways to futz up electronics.

The current plan...
--Upper assembly: Anderson build by Wise Arms, 16" 416SS barrel with .223 Wylde chamber, midlength gas and 1-7 twist, 15" 7-side Keymod plus top-rail handguard - $280 shipped
--Lower assembly: Palmetto LPK already in hand, buffer assembly PIF'ed from fellow NWFA member and in-hand
--BCG: AIM Surplus nickel-boron, $101 shipped
--Castle nut, stock, CH: DSArms, $72 shipped (CH is nickel-teflon; order includes a $7 stock wrench)
--Starter Optic: UTG SCP-RD40RGW-A 1x30 Red/Green Dot, $25 add-on with upper
--BUIS: Diamondhead ISS with Nite-Glow, $89
--Starting Tools: Wheeler roll-pin punch set and AR pivot-pin install tool, $30 combined
--Future upgrades: Bushnell TRS25 red-dot, $57 shipped; 17" version of same handguard (MSRP $190, CTD wants $5 OVER that... looking for better); more low-light-indoor friendly flash-hider/blast deflector, details unknown and part not yet selected
--In short, the only thing that would need to change for this build to be my ideal is the barrel material--I plan to fit ambi controls later, but want to learn to run a "normal" AR left-handed first

The alternate is a complete kit less sights that comes from CBC Industries for $400 shipped as parts or $450 with assembled upper.
AR-15 Upper Assembly - 16" / 5.56 x 45 / 15" CBC Arms Keymod GEN 2 AR-15 Handguard / Rail
Problems for me with this option:
--No .223 Wylde option, pure 5.56 only (in fairness, there aren't a lot of barrelmakers that do Wylde even though it's just a NATO chamber cut with a .223Rem freebore, and very few of those use anything but stainless)
--Carbine-length gas system - what is CBC's obsession with overgassing everything?
--Whole lot of expensive upgrades: $120 for BCG and CH, plus barrel and gas system replacement
if I were starting from absolute zero.

Anything that you guys would suggest I rethink to address stated goals, or how might you address them differently if you were a five-by-five who needed both corrective and polarized optics building a CQB AR for Home D? Bear in mind, for this exercise NFA is not an option, so no sound-suppressors and no SBR...

Brutus57 · Oct 2, 2016

I take it an AR pistol is out since you are talking SHTF beyond HD? For a truck gun or HD an AR pistol isn't a bad choice, especially with a longer barrel like 9-11 inches. Can be built for about 450-500 depending on options/features.... Also with your vision limitations have you considered a laser? Also with an AR pistol you'd likely want an aftermarket flash suppressor. I am with you on middie gas systems for carbines.... My BCM upper on an Aero lower shoots flawlessly.

Brutus Out

Knopfplayer · Oct 2, 2016

Novice question. You say you want minimum OAL and are sensitive to the flash, but you're going with a 16" barrel and haven't mentioned a flash supressor. Why are you not going 14.5 so you add the supressor and meet the 16" length?

3MTA3 · Oct 3, 2016

For the flash suppresser I'd suggest you take a look at Smith Vortex - battle proven and a real deal at under $60:

Diamondback · Oct 3, 2016

Good point, Brutus--an AR pistol is planned for a future build. For the moment Bad Breath Range is covered by my 1911, so I'm looking to expand the range of capabilities. (Plus this is also a familiarization tool for rifle construction, maintenance and operation, maybe a little competition if the mood strikes--while it's conceived for a Day I Pray Never Comes, it'd be nice to have something that can fill more roles than just "sit and wait for the Mutant Zombie Mall Ninja Uprising.)

Knopf, a 14.5 requires pin-and-weld. The existing uppers both include what look like A2's, and while I haven't settled on *what* I'm definitely going to be looking for better whether it works through reduction or redirection or both. My aversion to pin-and-weld is it means when I go to change things later the existing barrel/FH assembly becomes expensive scrapmetal (and when you're talking an FH like a Noveske Flaming Pig those are *very expensive* scrap!) unless somebody wants my exact parts-mix that went into it. Good question, about something I forgot to mention.

3M, will definitely take a look at that--also, since pistol-length AR's usually have even worse flash, I was wondering if a BD/FH made for them might be even more effective with a rifle.

bbbass · Oct 3, 2016

I don't understand the concept of house clearing with a full sized carbine. Might as well use a full sized 12ga... IMO one firearm cannot serve all purposes well. Build an outside gun for outside and use something else for inside. The 1911 works fine for that yes? Why would you want more firepower for a house with small rooms?

jblake00 · Oct 6, 2016

Have you considered an 8" barreled 300 Blackout in pistol form? We shot mine in the dark and had almost ZERO flash. The round is more suited for short barrel then .223/5.56, and will pack a much bigger punch then a comparably sized wylde barrel.
It's a different caliber then you might have, but it's a perfect lightweight AR pistol with no tax stamps needed.

bbbass · Oct 6, 2016

Given: .223 is more accurate than 5.56, 5.56 is hotter, 5.56 will shoot .223 but not as accurately as a rifle chambered for .223.

Sooo, the .223 Wylde barrel is a compromise that will shoot both cartridges but edges the .223 accuracy up a bit.

Therefore, the .223 Wylde in an appropriate barrel length is a better long distance shooter than 5.56... IMO appropriate barrel lengths start at 18.5" and go to 20" and 24". These also feature a rifle length gas system to smooth out recoil pulse on the bench. And have heavy barreled stainless steel. Mine has a spiral flute to lighten the rifle (not by much) and further improve accuracy.

These rifles are heavy! And while I have used mine in 3-gun competition, it was not fast and it wasn't pleasant to shoulder quickly nor to go on the move with. I built a 10" pistol shortly afterwards and it is much more fun for fast paced shooting. But I still love my .223 Wylde for chucks, bench shooting, etc.

IMO what you need for house clearing is way too much differentiated from what one uses in long distance gunning. What type of competition are you considering? And what is your priority of use for the planned rifle?

bbbass · Oct 6, 2016

For HD and yard defense, you want a mounted flashlight with a bright center focus to place shots in the bright circle, and a good range of side light so you don't get blindsided. I have one with a co-mounted laser under my combat shotgun barrel, and one with a laser next to the reflex optic on my AR pistol.

BTW, I have a Shockwave stabilizer on my AR pistol. Really gives me some options in carrying it for house clearing.

I also have a Judge .410 in the nightstand for quick access and bedroom defense. It is only 5rds, so the AR pistol is mounted on the wall nearby in case things get more serious.

Diamondback · Oct 6, 2016

At present, "threat envelope" is football-field-distance or less. Not a cul-de-sac, but the hood's a loop kind of like those "Fill In The Blank Awareness" ribbons about the size of three football fields laid side-by-side, with our property near the "X" and on the inside of the loop--the bedroom end of the house is tight quarters, but the kitchen/living room area is mostly open.

Lasers, I'm thinking not just one but two--red one side of the barrel, green the other, each boresighted dead parallel to bore axis--idea is "halfway between is where the bullet goes" and the distance between the two viewed on the optic being a poor-man's rangefinder if I ever need extra reach. Yes, it's extra weight.

Wonder if the Vortex would partner well with a Thordsen BD-180... the Thordsen's a blast deflector for AR pistols, but it needs a flash-suppressor working in tandem with it.

Have considered pistols, but as I said I already have the Halitosis Range stuff handled with a very nicely hand-fitted if admittedly utilitarian 1911--.300 is a possible on a later build, but right now I'm trying to stick to more widely available, thinking was .223 and 5.56 might make for a "train light/fight heavy" team akin to firing .38 Special from a .357 Magnum for practice. I'm thinking handguns at one end of my firepower scale, this rifle at the other, .300BLK pistol as an in-between later.

BBBass, the main problem I have with lights--though I plan to have one mounted and available--is "how do I use this without blinding ME?" My eyes seem to have tied into the optic nerve backward from normal, so the good news for having to wear Ray-Bans 24-7 is that I see better in low-light environments and have better peripheral vision--to the point that I actually see better about 15 degrees or so to either side than straight ahead. (And if any of you guys ever meet me and notice I seem to look at everybody a little sideways, this is why.)

Competition would be short-range stuff, bullseye and maybe a little 3-gun. Basically a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none outside of the front-heavy/long-sight-radius setup I prefer, but still something that if it's the closest thing at hand in a Home Invasion/other Urban Disturbance could Do The Job tolerably even if not as well as Old Slabsides. (Yes, this is a little different from OP, role definition refined in light of added data from you guys.)