A small taste of WROL in Ferguson, Missouri

[MarkAd]

"can spark these incidents - the Rodney King verdict for example,"

A little real history for you folks. the King riots were not sparked by the verdict. They were carefully set up to use the King verdict as an excuse for starting the rioting. I left there the day before the riots and I am glad I did as I had no ammo on hand.

 

[wichaka]

Divorce papers and eviction notices are not "Warrants"

Some jurisdictions have their SWAT teams departmentalized. For example, you have the detective division, traffic division, and the list goes on.
Some have the SWAT team as a specific division within the agency, thus they need to earn their keep by doing something, since some teams are not on patrol. So they get used for various things. Arrest and search warrants are just some of what they do.

Some agencies have their SWAT members as regular patrol officers, in normal uniforms. When a call comes in for deployment, those officers change clothes and off they go.

The term "over used" is a bit ambiguous, so before we use that term we need to know what is the mission at hand. Not saying they aren't over used, but again we need to know just exactly what they are being called out to do.

 

[Just Jim]

But that's my point - I have done searches. And yet no one can back, with any real proof, the claim that we're living in a "police state". Arming and equipping SWAT teams is a bit different from running a totalitarian regime where the population is under the thumb of the government. Considering I can still go out, at least for now, and buy all manner of firearms, and can carry them for my protection, I'd say we're still nowhere near a true police state. Places like NY, Chicago and LA may be a little closer, but again, we're still a democracy.

Can't see the forest for the trees You are watching a police state at Ferguson.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Can't see the forest for the trees You are watching a police state at Ferguson.

And you would prefer a coffee klatch?

 

[etrain16]

Can't see the forest for the trees You are watching a police state at Ferguson.

Really. Did you watch the news coverage last night? The local 'military' are out and the state police are now managing the situation. All the 'military' stuff is gone as of yesterday. The difference in a real police state (not just the ones people like to make up in their minds) is that a real police state would have remained exactly as we saw it a few days ago. No, this was simply poor management by the local police. They have neither the authority nor the ability to establish and maintain martial law - even other agencies wouldn't put up with that. I prefer to be a bit more of a realist here. Were they out of line - absolutely - but that's all it was - and a lot of folks are speaking out about it. It's going to make other agencies start to think twice before rolling out the police soldiers for an event like this again.

 

[Just Jim]

Yes I have been watching the coverage of how this is all working out. I have been watching the changes in America for decades.

 

[etrain16]

Yes I have been watching the coverage of how this is all working out. I have been watching the changes in America for decades.

"Change is the only constant in life" ~ Heraclitus

Of course it's changed, life always changes. Some changes for good, some for bad. The important thing to remember is that we still live in a country where we, the people, have the ability to make positive changes, even against government agencies that tend to overstep their authority. You speak as if it's a lost cause, as if the inevitable is that we'll all be under some power hungry dictatorship - I'm not ready to accept that because I believe that the people of this country will stand up and fight if it comes to it. I still point back to my earlier post - we are a nation with 80,000,000+ gun owners and 300,000,000 guns - that's a LOT of power against the government. Until they can get rid of at least most of those guns, they are limited in what they can do. Government agencies are far outnumbered by armed citizens.

 

[Just Jim]

I read and have lived through history. I won't give you a historical perspective because I believe everyone should educate themselves on what is important. I am not passing judgement nor am I saying all is lost, I am just pointing out events in the past that cover the topic. I have a good memory and have paid attention. There is no agenda involved, just what I see.

Change is not always for the better.

 

[etrain16]

"Change is the only constant in life" ~ Heraclitus

Of course it's changed, life always changes. Some changes for good, some for bad.

Change is not always for the better.

I know, that's what I already said in my post above And I've read and lived through history too, so not sure of your point on that one.

I think that Wichaka's post (#59) is very interesting as well - it seems to contradict those that say things like this are getting worse. Perhaps they're not. All I'm saying is, let's be honest about what's really happening, not jump to false conclusions, which, unfortunately, some people do.

 

[Just Jim]

We are living in interesting times. I have never seen the country in so much fear, even back in the sixties when they had the draft and the riots. I am not being pessimistic to say it will get worse, history shows the path we are on and we have no leadership that will make life better.

 

[etrain16]

We are living in interesting times. I have never seen the country in so much fear, even back in the sixties when they had the draft and the riots. I am not being pessimistic to say it will get worse, history shows the path we are on and we have no leadership that will make life better.

My observation is that we're always living in interesting times. I was born in the 60's and grew up in the 70's and 80's. I remember being in fear of the Russians and WWIII - I grew up believing that a nuclear war would happen - at any time. I've heard so many stories of what "may" happen, or what direction we're going or how we're going down the drain, it's hard to keep count. What many folks know is that fear sells - it sells books, products and politicians. It's a great motivator when you have people that get all their information from network news or internet sites. Many people can't be bothered to do any real research for themselves - they spout opinions from talking heads on the radio or repeat the rants of a friend or relative. But one thing is constant - we are always given something to 'fear' - it's just that the object of that fear tends to change with changes in society.

Are we trending, as a country, to a totalitarian dictatorship? I hardly think so. Are there those in power that would love to see a socialist agenda in place? Absolutely. But we still live in the most free, the most amazing country in the world. And even with our problems, we are still the #1 place people want to come for freedom and opportunity - that hasn't changed.

We need to be careful to educate our kids on the reasons this country was founded and the mistakes that have been made since then. We need to teach folks to come together as Americans, not segregate into different little societies of race, religion, etc. This country came together in a way that can not be matched anywhere else in the world to fight 2 world wars. We all came together, albeit for a brief time, as Americans after 9/11. The spirit of America is still there. The spirits of freedom and liberty are still alive and well. It may just be that some folks have lost their way. It's up to as many of us as possible to remind them.

 

[Just Jim]

Funny how two people can look at the same happenings and draw opposite conclusions. I suspect
different spins that goes along with the news story. Are we in a police state? Yes we are, it all depends on a definition or the spin you want to give it.

 

[etrain16]

Funny how two people can look at the same happenings and draw opposite conclusions. I suspect
different spins that goes along with the news story. Are we in a police state? Yes we are, it all depends on a definition or the spin you want to give it.

But that's part of what makes the United States a great place. I'm not forced to agree with you nor are you forced to agree with me - and neither one of us are forced to agree with the government. We maintain the right to vote. We maintain the right to run for office and make change happen. We can each approach a subject with a different point of view. I prefer to stick with a more firm definition of a "police state" - and I base that on seeing what real police states around the world really are. For now, I simply don't see that we're in that place yet. It does bear watching though, as if we're too apathetic, it could slip by us.

Since the early 90's, most states in the US went from may-issue to shall issue with respect to concealed carry. We saw the end of the Clinton era assault weapons ban. More states are allowing freedom to bear arms, not less. Of course you can cite places like NY, MD, CA, CT and IL as exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. If we really were in a police state, our ability to own and bear arms would be firmly locked down. Instead, a relative handful of rotten politicians are desperately trying to pass more restrictive laws - and many are going down in flames.

 

[Just Jim]

What I get from reading your post is you define a police state by having a physical police presence in your face all the time? With technology today they don't need to be in your face to control your life.

 

[etrain16]

What I get from reading your post is you define a police state by having a physical police presence in your face all the time? With technology today they don't need to be in your face to control your life.

Go back to my earlier post - where I posted the dictionary definition of "police state" - that's how I define it - not by my arbitrary (or yours or anyone else's) definition of it. But so far everyone is referencing physical presence - the assault rifles, the MRAPs, the camo outfits - seems that's what everyone here has been defining as police state, at least in this discussion.

 

[Just Jim]

Well it's been nice talking to you, I am moving on

 

[etrain16]

Well it's been nice talking to you, I am moving on

Same here. No hard feelings, just honest discussion - just the way I like it.

 

[Just Jim]

Then we agree to disagree, no really it is good to have civil discourse on these subjects.

Thanks
Jim

 

[erudne]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/16/gov-nixon-declares-emergency-imposes-curfew-in-ferguson/

 

[Sstrand]

People are protecting their own stores ??. . . With guns?? . . . Holy Sharpton/Jackson Batman we can't have that!! . . . Curfew . . . That's it . . . Curfew . . . Get those people in the hood move the riot to other parts of the city . . . That's the ticket . . . Keep this thing stirred up until the midterms are over and the democrat politicians have been safely re-elected.

One question: Where did the governor get his marching orders?? HHhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?!
Sheldon