A small taste of WROL in Ferguson, Missouri

[mkwerx]

Bet lots of sheriff deputies and state troopers in that area at the moment. Probably cops from other cities too.

They're making a big deal about the kid dying only 35 feet from the police car - anyone who's read a few Ayoob Articles will note that criminals sometimes run a mile or more before expiring from their wounds. Hell, any hunter can tell you that a 120lb deer shot with a .270 or .30-06 can run a mile through the woods before it falls. The 35 feet from the police car to the "victim" was probably covered in about half a second.

The "eye witness" account claiming the cop just pulled up, grabbed the "victim" by the neck and said "I'm gonna shoot you" is less than credible IMO, because this "witness" was the dead guys buddy and likely partner in crime. If he was even there when events transpired.

It does not take a high school education (which this kid had) to know that if you try to take a cop's gun - you're going to get shot. Repeatedly. It doesnt' take more than a few firing braincells to know that getting physical with a cop is going to, at best result in an bubblegum beating.

Listening to talk radio idiots this week trying to MMQB the incident - it scares me how many people out there don't understand how bubblegum works in the movies vs. real life - it's almost to the point that if I ever have to shoot someone (and I'm not a cop, just a private citizen) I'd be leaning toward bench trial, and not a jury because of the stupidity of the average person.

I do suspect that a few changes will be coming to Ferguson, MO's police. Wearable cameras & microphones - these will vindicate officers falsely accused, and there's studies that show upto a 50% reduction in improper use of force scenarios. Probably racial sensitivity training too - you know, how not to oppress the "minority" group in the city that outnumbers whitey almost 2-1.

 

[etrain16]

Heck no I wouldn't open carry. Have you seen the fully militarized cops out there?

There's pictures of them putting laser sights on people's chests who are standing in their own yards.

There are videos of them tear gassing people peacefully protesting in their own backyards behind fences.

Of course the gun crowd here will focus on just the looters. Yet another opportunity for you guys to spew your barely veiled racist sentiments.

Meanwhile most of you will overlook the paramilitary nature of our police state and the absolutely un-American behavior of blockading and attacking the free press in the area. This isn't Israel or China.

So, I'm curious. At what point, before these hooligans started rioting and looting, were the police equipped in military garb? At what point were they preventing the average person from walking down the street exercising their rights? I don't know that your claim that we are living in a paramilitary police state really, truly stands up to scrutiny. Take a look around the world at true police states - places where you don't dare look at an officer for fear of being shot - on a day to day basis - and you can see we're far from that. Exactly how is it you would like to see the police to respond when they're outnumbered 10-1, 25-1, 50-1, 100-1? When this is all over, by the way, the military style stuff goes back into the locker. I'm not claiming that police don't make mistakes and there are some that have attitude issues, but I just don't see the police state that some fringe folks claim.

As for racism - really? Is that where you need to take this? All you have to do is look at the video of who is rioting and looting - I'm seeing pretty much one group represented there. All people here have done is point out the obvious - that there is overwhelmingly one particular group behind all of this. It's not racist to speak the truth, nor to point it out when its so apparent. Personally, I find it sad that the rioters/looters in this case are doing what they're doing - because it doesn't help with public perception. Stand up and do the right thing, fight back in the lawful way, stand together and demand justice (if justice in fact needs to come) and stop tearing up and destroying your own neighborhood. That just shows a lack of good judgment on the part of those involved. If it were a group of white folks, Asian folks, Latino folks or anyone else doing it, I'd feel exactly the same way - it's stupid, ignorant and foolish - period. It will accomplish nothing more than to decimate their neighborhood. It's sad.

 

[2506]

Radley Balko's "The Rise of the Warrior Cops: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" is worth reading. And I think it's a slap in the face to anyone brave enough to have served in our military to compare cops to them--they're better than this.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I looked it up: Ferguson is a suburb of St Louis; has ~21,000 population (2010 census) in 6.2 square miles; ~48% Black, 28% white.
From news footage, there seem to be a lot more people, both protesters and police, than the community-size should support. This means to me that both protesters and police are coming from outside in order to participate in the mayhem. (Just now, FNC "Outnumbered" is saying the same thing about the protesters.)

The New Black Panther Party is marching around that town, Lots of footage on the net, Haven't seen it reported on MSM yet though. Rev. Al is bringing in a few agitators and stirring things up as well I'm sure.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Yet another opportunity for you guys to spew your barely veiled racist sentiments..

I hope you aren't referring to me.. my quip about the imaginary Korean restaurant was a direct historical observation of the L.A. riots of old where a Korean store was the only store not looted/burned to the ground as they protected it with AR-15's and such, 24/7 for I don't know how many days.

 

[etrain16]

Radley Balko's "The Rise of the Warrior Cops: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" is worth reading. And I think it's a slap in the face to anyone brave enough to have served in our military to compare cops to them--they're better than this.

That's a good recommendation, I'll need to check it out. No doubt they are moving that direction, but I think there is still a ways to go before we can truly be considered a police state. Something to keep an eye on though.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I hope you aren't referring to me.. my quip about the imaginary Korean restaurant was a direct historical observation of the L.A. riots of old where a Korean store was the only store not looted/burned to the ground as they protected it with AR-15's and such, 24/7 for I don't know how many days.

I think he means me.

 

[RicInOR]

"So, I'm curious. At what point, before these hooligans started rioting and looting, were the police equipped in military garb? At what point were they preventing the average person from walking down the street exercising their rights? I don't know that your claim that we are living in a paramilitary police state really, truly stands up to scrutiny."

All the time - look at all the small towns getting armored vehicles, tanks, mine resistant armored personnel carriers. Cops used to wear Blue. Brown or Green were common for deputies. Now all are in black or cammo. The State of Oregon just released their findings on the killing of Weigh-master - his dressing like a cop is listed as a contributory factor - that and driving a car which looks like a cop car. Also here.

NYC - Stop and Frisk is by far the most well known. After the bombing in Boston, they shut down the entire city. Katrina. Rodney King Verdict. ex-LA Cop on a "rampage" - where they tried to shut down wide swaths of SoCal.

People of brown skin are more acutely aware as these actions seem to be more frequent than in the Lilly white and rich areas. But perhaps that is because of visibility. As you get into IL from St. Louis one of the worst places for violence and crime is East St. Louis. Other suburbs would have their police follow brown skinned people around - to make sure they were suppose to be in these "nice" neighborhoods. (This made some national news magazine back in the day.)

Look left, look right - the cops are warriors now. What happened to "serve and protect"?

Please don't take this post as an defense of the indefensible actions in MO. I am just trying to point out that the militarization has crept in, and continues to do so.

 

[CHLChris]

As for whether I'd be open carrying around town during WROL, I'd just be holding down the fort. I have two reasons why I wouldn't even venture out:

1) Don't go to stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people. I wouldn't even go near the area, but in WROL situations, what exactly is "the bad area" may be fluid. Which gets me to my second point:

2) Remember Reginald Denny in the 1987 "protests" after the acquittal of the four cops who beat Rodney King? He was going about his business in his work truck and just happened to drive into an intersection filled with black rioters. They pulled him out of the truck and beat him almost to death.

You just do NOT want to get anywhere near a choatic situation. There is no way to predict how it might turn out, even if you do have an AR and a sidearm.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Sure, the militarization is creeping in and it's going hand in hand with the loss of our privacy rights, freedoms etc.. Most people on this forum understand that. It's gotten out of hand.

But the facts aren't in on this case yet and as has happened so many times before the race baiters are jumping the gun stirring up the low info crowd. Then as has happened so many times before, the looting, destruction and violence begins. If injustice turns out to be the case later, then a riot may be in order, who knows? But these people are just punks who are in it to rip off sneakers and television sets!

In the mean time Political Correctness prevents honest news coverage and in turn prevents the use of needed heavier than normal security measures to keep a lid on things.

Yeah, I'll say it. OCCASIONALLY a slightly more militarized Police are needed when things get out of hand.
This seems to be one of those times.

 

[Brutus57]

I'

.. But you guys, these young kids are entitled to all that stuff.. Because they too are "kept down" by
"the man" and this is their way of sticking it to said "man".

Its one of the genuine excuses Ive heard.. Buckshot to the faces of all these scumbags looters would be a nice and prompt halt to the looting.

I'm still lookin for the "Man" to stick it to.

 

[Brutus57]

Neighbors, I would intervene. Most of them are older, and have not armed themselves for some unknown reason. as far as businesses, maybe. But WAL~MART Hells NO! They don't have any American made products. So I would drive by and at that one!

Actually a couple of Walmarts I shop do carry US made items, Colt ARs, DPMS, Remingtons, lots of US ammo.... But I can't seem to get any CHINESE .22LR!!!!!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Look left, look right - the cops are warriors now..

Werd.. even Gecko45 makes Barney Fife look like.. well, Barney Fife.

 

[etrain16]

All the time - look at all the small towns getting armored vehicles, tanks, mine resistant armored personnel carriers. Cops used to wear Blue. Brown or Green were common for deputies. Now all are in black or cammo. The State of Oregon just released their findings on the killing of Weigh-master - his dressing like a cop is listed as a contributory factor - that and driving a car which looks like a cop car. Also here.

Please don't take this post as an defense of the indefensible actions in MO. I am just trying to point out that the militarization has crept in, and continues to do so.

I don't disagree that police agencies are purchasing these vehicles, etc., but again, other than in special circumstances, are these things being used on a day to day basis? I don't see cops in fatigues walking down the streets carrying assault rifles. Sure we see it in special situations like the one in MO, during some crazy weather events or big time bank robberies or hostage situations. Still, for the day to day, I'm seeing regular cops looking just like they always have. I've traveled around the country - certainly not everywhere - and I see the same thing. Cops aren't pulling people over in armored personnel carriers, and they're not wearing army fatigues.

Yes, it's crept in, but our governments are still able to be effected by the people. We have votes, we have the numbers. If it gets to be too much, then it has to be up to all of us to put a stop to it. It appears to me at least that it's primarily the municipal police agencies doing this. Sheriff's departments and State Police seem to me to be sticking with their more traditional roles.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/new-video-of-burning-ferguson-quiktrip-shows-police-and-protesters/
An 18-year-old employee of the store who did not want to be identified told FOX 2 on Monday that, "I thought I was going to die, I really thought I was going to die."

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Not everybody is happy with the Protesting/looting

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

This guy thinks he was justified.http://fox2now.com/2014/08/11/video-protester-justifies-the-looting-in-ferguson/

 

[etrain16]

This guy thinks he was justified.http://fox2now.com/2014/08/11/video-protester-justifies-the-looting-in-ferguson/

Clearly, he is a well-informed individual. It's perfectly justifiable because they are looting the businesses that fund the man and keep them down. Yep, a well-reasoned, well-thought-out argument.

 

[2506]

I don't disagree that police agencies are purchasing these vehicles, etc., but again, other than in special circumstances, are these things being used on a day to day basis? I don't see cops in fatigues walking down the streets carrying assault rifles. Sure we see it in special situations like the one in MO, during some crazy weather events or big time bank robberies or hostage situations. Still, for the day to day, I'm seeing regular cops looking just like they always have. I've traveled around the country - certainly not everywhere - and I see the same thing. Cops aren't pulling people over in armored personnel carriers, and they're not wearing army fatigues.

Yes, it's crept in, but our governments are still able to be effected by the people. We have votes, we have the numbers. If it gets to be too much, then it has to be up to all of us to put a stop to it. It appears to me at least that it's primarily the municipal police agencies doing this. Sheriff's departments and State Police seem to me to be sticking with their more traditional roles.

It's on the rise:
http://www.ndsn.org/july97/swat.html

Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it's not happening.... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Clearly, he is a well-informed individual. It's perfectly justifiable because they are looting the businesses that fund the man and keep them down. Yep, a well-reasoned, well-thought-out argument.

Decades of misguided sympathetic feel-good policies, created to alleviate guilt from past injustices have created this young mans mindset.
These are the consequences from the soft racism of low expectations that began with honest attempts at reparations, mixed with a lot of political backroom B.S. back in the 60s.

Sadly it's become ALL about money and votes now at the expense of guys like this.