A Relearning experience with shell holders.

[osprey]

Over my 40 year reloading career I have run into many of the different problems and learned how to deal with them. Well some things you need to learn more than once evidently. I recently set out to load up a batch of hunting my loads for my 280 ai and cranked out 40 rds. My dies have good split lock rings and I never change the adjustments on the dies as I only load one load with them. I go to chamber a round and it took a ton of force to cam the bolt closed in my Kimber Montana. WTF? I try a couple more and same thing. So now I am faced with pulling 40 rds apart. The culprit was tolerance difference on the shell holder causing the case to sit lower in the die when the shell holder was touching the die. I actually ran into this years ago and try to keep shell holders and dies together as a set. Well evidently I stole the one out of this set as it is a #3 rcbs and also fits 270, 308, 6.5CM, 260 and many more. I got to measuring the distance between where the shell holders contact the ram of press and the shelf where the case sits and there was .003" difference between two examples of the same shell holder. Evidently I set the dies up a with the one with the taller step and grabbed a different one for this go round. Lesson relearned ! Keep dies and shell holders together as a set! I think I have 6 shell holders in this size to cover all the cartridges I load using them. I think I will now engrave on them to indicate which set of dies they belong to. Hopefully by self reporting my stupidity I will save someone else from suffering the same fate. It is not all bad though, I have amazon bringing me a new toy in the form of a collet type bullet puller. There was no way I was gonna kinetic pull 40 rds and mash the tips of those spendy partitions. Happy reloading.

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[bbbass]

Yep, yesterday I loaded a bunch of 9mm for the first time in years. I switched from 115gr to 124gr and had to learn how to set up all over again!!!

 

[DizzyJ]

Over my 40 year reloading career I have run into many of the different problems and learned how to deal with them. Well some things you need to learn more than once evidently. I recently set out to load up a batch of hunting my loads for my 280 ai and cranked out 40 rds. My dies have good split lock rings and I never change the adjustments on the dies as I only load one load with them. I go to chamber a round and it took a ton of force to cam the bolt closed in my Kimber Montana. WTF? I try a couple more and same thing. So now I am faced with pulling 40 rds apart. The culprit was tolerance difference on the shell holder causing the case to sit lower in the die when the shell holder was touching the die. I actually ran into this years ago and try to keep shell holders and dies together as a set. Well evidently I stole the one out of this set as it is a #3 rcbs and also fits 270, 308, 6.5CM, 260 and many more. I got to measuring the distance between where the shell holders contact the ram of press and the shelf where the case sits and there was .003" difference between two examples of the same shell holder. Evidently I set the dies up a with the one with the taller step and grabbed a different one for this go round. Lesson relearned ! Keep dies and shell holders together as a set! I think I have 6 shell holders in this size to cover all the cartridges I load using them. I think I will now engrave on them to indicate which set of dies they belong to. Hopefully by self reporting my stupidity I will save someone else from suffering the same fate. It is not all bad though, I have amazon bringing me a new toy in the form of a collet type bullet puller. There was no way I was gonna kinetic pull 40 rds and mash the tips of those spendy partitions. Happy reloading.

It's good of you to post up this information as many people don't think about such things.

I guess I am lucky in that I am anal about checking each round as it comes off the press whether it be shoulder bump or bullet seating depth.

This is the thought process behind the Redding competition shell holder set. You adjust shoulder bump by using the different shell holders that have varying shelf heights.

I too have been reloading for a long time (well over 30 years), and you always stumble across something you've not seen before.

This also usually leads to another tool or gauge purchase.

 

[gmerkt]

I've been there with the shoulder bump issue. I use a Wilson cartridge case gauge right away on the first few cases that I resize to see what's going on. Not only do shell holders vary but also brass thickness.

Also been there with the relearning issue. Things that I've already suffered to dope out and forgotten. Luckily only I know about it so there's no embarrassment.

Yes, I've had a Hornady collet puller for some time. Very handy, have unexpectedly had to use it many times. I won't fire a loaded round just because I'm too lazy to break it down. Also, there are times I've gotten great deals on someone else's reloads that have come up for sale. I won't fire those either.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Over my 40 year reloading career I have run into many of the different problems and learned how to deal with them. Well some things you need to learn more than once evidently. I recently set out to load up a batch of hunting my loads for my 280 ai and cranked out 40 rds. My dies have good split lock rings and I never change the adjustments on the dies as I only load one load with them. I go to chamber a round and it took a ton of force to cam the bolt closed in my Kimber Montana. WTF? I try a couple more and same thing. So now I am faced with pulling 40 rds apart. The culprit was tolerance difference on the shell holder causing the case to sit lower in the die when the shell holder was touching the die. I actually ran into this years ago and try to keep shell holders and dies together as a set. Well evidently I stole the one out of this set as it is a #3 rcbs and also fits 270, 308, 6.5CM, 260 and many more. I got to measuring the distance between where the shell holders contact the ram of press and the shelf where the case sits and there was .003" difference between two examples of the same shell holder. Evidently I set the dies up a with the one with the taller step and grabbed a different one for this go round. Lesson relearned ! Keep dies and shell holders together as a set! I think I have 6 shell holders in this size to cover all the cartridges I load using them. I think I will now engrave on them to indicate which set of dies they belong to. Hopefully by self reporting my stupidity I will save someone else from suffering the same fate. It is not all bad though, I have amazon bringing me a new toy in the form of a collet type bullet puller. There was no way I was gonna kinetic pull 40 rds and mash the tips of those spendy partitions. Happy reloading.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but you don't need to keep separate shell holders for each die set. That just doesn't make sense. I keep my most common used shell holders hanging up right next to my press. I've had them since the 90's when I started loading. You use those shell holders to set your dies up with and you use those shell holders to load your ammo with. Pretty simple actually. Now, if I have an odd ball case that takes a weird sized shell holder like a wildcat cartridge (my 6WOA for example), then yes I keep that shell holder in the die box. Other than that, I have a #10 for all of my .223 rem rounds for all of my .223 rem rifles (ar's included), a #03 for 30-06 class of cartridges, a #04 for my H&H magnum based cartridges and a #43 for my WSM cartridges. To have more than one of each shell holder is asking for trouble. This is where the old saying"less is more", is really true. Here's what that looks like:


Also, you mention partitions as being "spendy", if you don't already know this, check out SPS. If you buy the blemished/factory seconds or overruns, they are sold at a great discount. That's the only place I buy my partitions and they really aren't that spendy that way:

Bullets (BLEM) - Factory Blemished (2nds)

Shooter’s Pro Shop is the only authorized dealer for Nosler and SSA Factory Seconds and Over Runs. We offer a wide variety of shooting, hunting and reloading supplies at discounted prices.

www.shootersproshop.com

Keep checking with them, they update their stock and availability all the time...

 

[DizzyJ]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but you don't need to keep separate shell holders for each die set. That just doesn't make sense. I keep my most common used shell holders hanging up right next to my press. I've had them since the 90's when I started loading. You use those shell holders to set your dies up with and you use those shell holders to load your ammo with. Pretty simple actually. Now, if I have an odd ball case that takes a weird sized shell holder like a wildcat cartridge (my 6WOA for example), then yes I keep that shell holder in the die box. Other than that, I have a #10 for all of my .223 rem rounds for all of my .223 rem rifles (ar's included), a #03 for 30-06 class of cartridges, a #04 for my H&H magnum based cartridges and a #43 for my WSM cartridges. To have more than one of each shell holder is asking for trouble. This is where the old saying"less is more", is really true. Here's what that looks like:
View attachment 622450

Also, you mention partitions as being "spendy", if you don't already know this, check out SPS. If you buy the blemished/factory seconds or overruns, they are sold at a great discount. That's the only place I buy my partitions and they really aren't that spendy that way:

Bullets (BLEM) - Factory Blemished (2nds)

Shooter’s Pro Shop is the only authorized dealer for Nosler and SSA Factory Seconds and Over Runs. We offer a wide variety of shooting, hunting and reloading supplies at discounted prices.

www.shootersproshop.com

Keep checking with them, they update their stock and availability all the time...

You use the race car to transport the components?

Are those Forster co ax plates I spy there?

 

[osprey]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but you don't need to keep separate shell holders for each die set. That just doesn't make sense. I keep my most common used shell holders hanging up right next to my press. I've had them since the 90's when I started loading. You use those shell holders to set your dies up with and you use those shell holders to load your ammo with. Pretty simple actually. Now, if I have an odd ball case that takes a weird sized shell holder like a wildcat cartridge (my 6WOA for example), then yes I keep that shell holder in the die box. Other than that, I have a #10 for all of my .223 rem rounds for all of my .223 rem rifles (ar's included), a #03 for 30-06 class of cartridges, a #04 for my H&H magnum based cartridges and a #43 for my WSM cartridges. To have more than one of each shell holder is asking for trouble. This is where the old saying"less is more", is really true. Here's what that looks like:
View attachment 622450

Also, you mention partitions as being "spendy", if you don't already know this, check out SPS. If you buy the blemished/factory seconds or overruns, they are sold at a great discount. That's the only place I buy my partitions and they really aren't that spendy that way:

Bullets (BLEM) - Factory Blemished (2nds)

Shooter’s Pro Shop is the only authorized dealer for Nosler and SSA Factory Seconds and Over Runs. We offer a wide variety of shooting, hunting and reloading supplies at discounted prices.

www.shootersproshop.com

Keep checking with them, they update their stock and availability all the time...

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it can't happen. There is a tolerance stacking issue with these dies and the shell holders. These dies can only be used with this one shell holder as the other 5 I own have a lower shelf but they also vary by .0015 - 002". If your program works for you great but I have experienced this issue several times in the past hence the matched sets. Shell holders are cheap.

 

[Throckmorton]

Now I am happier to have cheap guns with lots of tolerance, lol. ie:slop .
since 99.9% of my hadloading is pistol/revolver ammo, on old guns, 'close enough' works . Works for me

 

[Caveman Jim]

Over my 40 year reloading career I have run into many of the different problems and learned how to deal with them. Well some things you need to learn more than once evidently. I recently set out to load up a batch of hunting my loads for my 280 ai and cranked out 40 rds. My dies have good split lock rings and I never change the adjustments on the dies as I only load one load with them. I go to chamber a round and it took a ton of force to cam the bolt closed in my Kimber Montana. WTF? I try a couple more and same thing. So now I am faced with pulling 40 rds apart. The culprit was tolerance difference on the shell holder causing the case to sit lower in the die when the shell holder was touching the die. I actually ran into this years ago and try to keep shell holders and dies together as a set. Well evidently I stole the one out of this set as it is a #3 rcbs and also fits 270, 308, 6.5CM, 260 and many more. I got to measuring the distance between where the shell holders contact the ram of press and the shelf where the case sits and there was .003" difference between two examples of the same shell holder. Evidently I set the dies up a with the one with the taller step and grabbed a different one for this go round. Lesson relearned ! Keep dies and shell holders together as a set! I think I have 6 shell holders in this size to cover all the cartridges I load using them. I think I will now engrave on them to indicate which set of dies they belong to. Hopefully by self reporting my stupidity I will save someone else from suffering the same fate. It is not all bad though, I have amazon bringing me a new toy in the form of a collet type bullet puller. There was no way I was gonna kinetic pull 40 rds and mash the tips of those spendy partitions. Happy reloading.

I had all of my reloading stuff in boxes scattered throughout my shop for over 9 months while constructing "The Room". Over the last 3 months I have slowly added said boxed up stuff in little by little. I have used my 40S&W dies and they just needed the bullet seater adjusted due to different grain bullets I found for a great price.
I have yet to dive into the AR food as I am re-entering much information that was left in a folder, it is a mess... So I'm sure I'll get busy & forget some trivial detail and discover it when I use the case gauge on every round....
Believe me, I to have needed a bullet puller a time or two.

 

[DLS]

Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it can't happen. There is a tolerance stacking issue with these dies and the shell holders. These dies can only be used with this one shell holder as the other 5 I own have a lower shelf but they also vary by .0015 - 002". If your program works for you great but I have experienced this issue several times in the past hence the matched sets. Shell holders are cheap.

I think what BSA is saying is if you only have one shell holder for a class of cartridges, and set up all your dies of that class with that one same shell holder you can't possibly have a mismatch problem.

At least until you misplace that shellholder!

 

[Head Shot]

Erased

 

[osprey]

I think what BSA is saying is if you only have one shell holder for a class of cartridges, and set up all your dies of that class with that one same shell holder you can't possibly have a mismatch problem.

At least until you misplace that shellholder!

Well that holds true unless you have a tolerance stacking issue as I do where the fl sizing die with all but one of my shell holders wont bump the shoulder back far enough to chamber easily no matter how the fl sizing die is adjusted. I obviously have a tight chamber. I found this and probably could have sent my sizing die into redding with some fired cases and have a custom die made but that would likely cost some coin. My solution was finding that oddball shell holder with the higher step that allows the case shoulder to be bumped back correctly. If you reload long enough you will have to wade through many little kinks like this and it is all part of the game. Chamber cut dimensions vary enough in different rifles shooting the same cartridge that situations like this are bound to crop up. Is my way the only way? Heck no, I was just putting it out there in hopes it may help the next guy. Happy reloading!

 

[DLS]

Since you need an oddball shell holder to make this work it seems you have an out of spec die and all the major manufacturers will fix this for free, either by giving you a new die or by machining off a few thousandths from the die bottom. They will judge the amount by the fired cases you send in.

Or a simpler solution is to use the shell holder you found that works with that die and set all your dies using that one shell holder.

A long time ago I had a clambering problem with a batch of reloads and I too decided a collet puller was in order rather than banging away with my inertia puller. I since then have checked my sizing setup each time I start again with a particular die and have never again suffered a problem. (with sizing anyway)

So a good lesson to learn, or relearn as the case may be. There are tons of things an experienced hand loader can take for granted causing a problem. Thanks for the thread, it's good info!

So, shall we talk of priming, ... seating, ... stuck cases ...<ducking now>!

 

[osprey]

The die is fine Kimber chamber is tight and I won't be sending it back to Kimber as it is very accurate and cycles ammo beautifully. Also I could machine my die off myself if I took the notion. The shell holder with the taller shelf works for me.