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A problem I have never run into before!

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Mark W., Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I made up 100 test rounds to try to find a good load for my M1 carbine and to try to come as close to Military Ballistics as possible.

    To do this I made up 10 rounds in 5 different powder charges using two different powders. I used random cases from the 1350 I had prepared. I also chose to us some 110gr Coated Lead Slugs I bought in a plastic bag at a recent gun show.

    I figured I only had 200 of them and since what I was looking for mostly was velocity they being the same wieght and basic shape as the other slugs I would be loading should get me real close.

    So I packup go to the Club and sight in the Carbine at 50 yards using some PMC 110gr FMJs I manage to get it about spot on within the accuracy I can muster using military peep sights.

    I put the first test rounds into the mag and rack the slide. The round won't go into battery. Holding the bolt open just a hair. So I pull the bolt and eject the round I check it out visually and see no problems. Same thing happens with the second round.

    Now I know the OAL lenght and slug diameter is spot on I checked them with my digital calipers.

    I drop the third round into the chamber and allow the bolt to slam into it. This time it goes into battery. I aim and fire. The rifle has a slightly louder report then the factory ammo and maybe a hair more recoil. The point of impact is about 3" above where I expect it to be.

    The next round having been stripped off the top of the magazine does not go into battery. So I hit the bolt charging handle with the meat of my hand. Not hard but hopefully enough to put the round into battery. No luck.

    I pull hard on the bolt lever and the slug remains stuck in the rifle while the case comes out with the bolt and of course flings 11grains of 2400 powder all over the breach.

    OK bullet is stuck in the barrel trip to the range is over.

    I come home push the bullet out of the barrel and see it has rifling marks on it!!!!

    I double check the OAL of the other bullets in the test batch all are spot on at 1.680" double check that in 3 books and against the PMC's OK thats not it. I then take a Raineer Coated Lead slug 110gr and seat it to the same depth and drop it into the chamber (NO POWDER) it drops in fully and then I put it in the top of the mag and rack the bolt. it strips and chambers to full battery perfectly!!!!!

    I then take one of the unused Gun show 110gr slugs and weigh it weight a hair under 110gr I weigh the Raineer slug weight a hair over 110gr

    I then lay them side by side and the little light bulb goes on over my head. See if you can tell why?


    Look at the ogive of the bullet on the right. See how it remains parallel for so close to the tip! I measured and the gunshow slug is .308" in diameter for .450" from the base.

    It was being shoved into the rifling when attempting to be chambered. In 43 years of reloading I had never run into this with a reload that was at published OAL.

    SO now I get to pull 98 slugs and dump some powder in the yard resize the brass and load up some proper shaped bullets.

    I guess my Carbine chamber throat must be in pretty good condition.

    Live and learn.
  2. kenf729

    kenf729 Forest Grove Oregon Member

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    Is the one on the right the Rainier, I found the same issue with some 45acp boolits I bought from them, I had to set OAL just a tad deeper.
  3. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    I have run into thsi problem once or maybe twice,luckily not all that often.Sure wastes range trip. :(
  4. giddyupgo55

    giddyupgo55 Vernonia Active Member

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    I know it does not help with your current problem, but you might look at buying a case gage. I have found that it has save me a lot of problems.
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Case gauge? I have both Dial and Digital Calipers I use to check all my dimensions. In this case I would have needed a cast of the Carbines Chamber to know ahead of time the problem I could have run into.

    Actually the one on the LEFT that fits just fine is the Ranier Coated Lead. The one on the right is an unknown brand.
  6. iusmc2002

    iusmc2002 Colville, WA Active Member

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    You must have put a pretty decent crimp on those boolits if you weren't able to whack it into battery with your hand. Thats a good thing though, I'm thinking. Who knows what would have happened with the bullet smashed deeper into the case, and with it stuck in the rifling. Glad you weren't hurt or anything. That is a pretty long bearing surface for a round of that weight and diameter. Never seen anything like it either. But I have managed to lodge a bullet into the rifling on my 270. Had to take it back home and knock the slug out. Both times were with 140gr BTs, that were set up just like all the other ones that I DIDN'T have trouble with. Was kinda weird, as I could find no reason for it when I went home and made up some dummy rounds and didn't have any trouble chambering or extracting.
  7. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Once I had the thing stuck that was it time to go home and do some serious figuring out. I been reloading for over 42 years off an on and one thing I have learned is that like with cameras its never right if you have to force it. The rounds that I started with had a full 2 grains (11 vs 13) of Alliant 2400 powder so it was well under the max load. But had I shoved the ball into the case another .100 pressure would most certainly gone up. And I really like my carbine and my nose and eyes so I wasn't going to try to convice it to go into battery.

    Pretty sure I will take a good hard look at any new to the bench bullet I go to use from now on.
  8. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    This is hardly an unusual problem for most rifle shooters, but it's probably a bit more unusual for .30 carbine shooters... This is part of the reason I chamber check a dummy round if it's a new bullet type I'm loading with a new OAL. From the .300 BLK thread, I'm starting to make gauges for this now.
  9. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    That's why I invested in a Hornady (old Stoney Point) OAL gauge and measure my rifle rounds to the ogive with a comparator as part of the process. I load my rounds with the ogive as far out as possible while the OAL is still within the max length to feed from the magazine.

    You only have this happen once to figure things out as a rule.

    For those that don't want to invest $30 or so, just cut some slits in the neck of a sized case. Put a bullet in the neck, just enough to hold it while chambering the round. The rifling will push the bullet back into the case. When extracting the round from the chamber, use a cleaning rod to assist so the rifling doesn't pull the bullet back out. Good news is that one only needs to do this when changing bullets.
    Jamie6.5 and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I bought 5,000 Ranier 45 ACP ball bullets to load for my AR15 carbine and another 45 rifle and they won't shoot straight.. huge groups.. I will never buy more plated bullets, my hard cast lead bullets are far better

    That .30 cal ogive is goofy looking, what were they thinking?
  11. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    OGIVE, now I know what the term means! I had this same issue a while back with a Kimber 9mm and bullits from BERRY'S. Might your "show bullits" be Berry's? Apperantly the riflings in Wifey's Kimber were way closer to the chamber than they in my SR9c and the LC9. I would have needed to load to .110 LESS than recomended OAL for that Kimber. I did not want to mess with figuring out how much to decrease the charge of TITEGROUP. Sold the Berry's and went with Montana Gold and only need to reduce OAL .030 for the kimber 9mm. This was with 124gr JHP, I'm assuming if I was using JRN I'd be able to use recomended OAL.

  12. nubus

    nubus Guest

    Ah yes ogive. I highly doubt those bullets were intended for use in a 30 carbine. More likely for really light bullets in a 30-30 or the like.
  13. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    This is one example of why, I don't buy bagged ammo or bullets from gun shows.