Low Price Guns
Sporting Systems
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Gun Deals
Oregon Rifleworks
Oregon Arms & Ammunition
J&B Firearm Sales
Simply Triggers
Defensive Arts
Buster Beaver Cerakote
HighLine Firearms

A Northerner acknowledges the cause of the Civil War

Xaevian

Messages
1,184
Reactions
3,097
People prefer simple explanations. In that vein, I like to point out that con-federate is the opposite of pro-federal. The foundations of this division were laid and are evidenced in the bill of rights. The role of the central governing authority in America was hotly debated even from the beginning, and though compromises were made, those compromises did not settle the issue for all. In reality, this fight is still going on, as clearly evidenced by the sanctuary movements, marijuana legalization, et al.
 
The Civil War was about taxes...

...it was also about slavery...and westward expansion...and states rights...and federalism...and endless list of other issues.

It is a common error of our books and media to remember history through a simplified and myopic lens.

Lincoln didn't mention slavery in his early speeches because he knew that any reference would drive a further wedge into an already fractured country.

Lincoln said "If I find a venomous snake lying on the open praire, I seize the first stick and kill him at once. But if that snake is in bed with my children, I must be more cautious. I shall, in striking the snake, also strike the children, or arouse the reptile to bite the children."

Lincoln's primary goal was to preserve the Union, even at the abhorrent cost of slavery.

But slavery was a driving issue and the country had already been simmering in war well before any shots were fired at Fort Sumter.... the dead of "Bleeding Kansas" and Harper's Ferry can attribute to the price being paid.

Yet there were many people in the North that were plenty racist and supported slavery; and many people (although a lesser number) in the South that neither owned nor supported slavery.

Mary Todd Lincoln's brothers fought for the Confederacy.

General Pickett, of Gettysburg, did not like slavery and owned none, but felt his loyalty belonged to his home State.

It is my belief that the war was inevitable. From the founding of our nation grew two narratives:

One of a unified body of states governed by federal authority.

The other of independent states with a federal body acting as an intermediary.

This is why much of the Confederate Officer's and politicians speak of their primary loyalty being to their State. Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, etc.

The country was divided for countless economic and ethical reasons. But the primary cause of the civil war is a disagreement over the very nature and foundation of our Union.

The Southern states largely believed themselves sovereign; no other body had jurisdiction to regulate commerce, which at the time very much meant slavery.

The State and the Federal government cannot both have supreme authority. As Lincoln said "A house divided against itself cannot stand"

So yes, the Civil War was partially about taxes, along with numerous other economic and political issues. But slavery was the driving economic force in the South and the war most certainly was fueled by this injustice.

But the one common denominator in the Civil War was both sides had their own narrative on the principles in which this country was founded. Those narratives were in conflict and the divide only grew until brothers fought brothers.

I hope we never see anything like it again.
Good point often missed in arguments (yes we still argue the War Against The Union!) re: State vs Federal sovereignty. Whether or not the issues of sovereignty would have been worked out peacefully in the absence of slavery is anyone's guess. Without the driving issue of HUMAN CHATTEL SERVITUDE there would have been no abolitionists, no Bleeding Kansas, no John Brown & associates... John Brown was correct when he said that the "sins of this guilty land can only be washed out by blood"...Excellent post!
By way of obiter dicta... Scotch-Irish and Irish in the main.. our family fought for and some died because of the war to preserve the Republic and end slavery. Altho I had no part in what was their war, I am proud of my ancestors for this.
 
Last edited:
Messages
224
Reactions
458
Elaborate, yo.
Sometimes it can be a race war. Eliminate the race then take the land/resources etc.. Native Americans? There's a lot more than just that one example. And then you can still say, in a 'round about way, it's about economics I guess. Humans are like a virus, they move in, possibly compete with the current land holders, use all the resources and then move to another area to use those resources. Matrix anyone?
 

Certaindeaf

Messages
15,712
Reactions
31,759
  • Woke Up Like This
Sometimes it can be a race war. Eliminate the race then take the land/resources etc.. Native Americans? There's a lot more than just that one example. And then you can still say, in a 'round about way, it's about economics I guess. Humans are like a virus, they move in, possibly compete with the current land holders, use all the resources and then move to another area to use those resources. Matrix anyone?
Because theys takin all the money/opportunity, same thing.
 
Messages
1,775
Reactions
1,539
From the historian Kevin Kruse, who’s a bit of an expert on the matter:

“In its simplest terms, the Civil War came about because the southern states seceded.
And the southern states seceded to protect and defend slavery.

And we know this because they said so at the time.

Proudly. Openly. Repeatedly.”
 

Xaevian

Messages
1,184
Reactions
3,097
"In the simplest of terms," his is a description for simpletons. Anti-slavery is mentioned as a symptom, not a cause. Proudly. Openly. Repeatedly.

For an expert, his reading comprehension is lacking, but his bias is pretty apparent.

If you don't have time to read it all, Virginia's is pretty short; it is on the end.
 

clearconscience

Messages
9,740
Reactions
27,548
I’ll admit my ignorance to this. I claim to be a fan of history but most has been post WW2.

but what happened to the Liberty minded folks of the 1776 era. The people who flipped the finger to the British taxes?
Sounds like they replaced the oppression of the British by oppression from the North.

So did they immediately go against the ideals of the constitution or was it a 2 gen Governance that pushed for progression through taxation?

I need to read more
 

clearconscience

Messages
9,740
Reactions
27,548
"In the simplest of terms," his is a description for simpletons. Anti-slavery is mentioned as a symptom, not a cause. Proudly. Openly. Repeatedly.

For an expert, his reading comprehension is lacking, but his bias is pretty apparent.

If you don't have time to read it all, Virginia's is pretty short; it is on the end.
but did they cling to slavery due to the over-taxation. All those plantations would have gone under with 75-80% taxes on goods if not for free labor
 

bbbass

Messages
11,376
Reactions
24,255
For an expert,
"Experts" are like tarnished pennies... you can pick one up on the street any time.

People who claim to have the "truth" do not.


but did they cling to slavery due to the over-taxation.
Perhaps partly. It was certainly part of the economics of the South. But it was also a way of life that they wanted to defend. I'm sure they felt that nobody had the right to dictate to them. That said, I do believe it was more involved than what simplistic thinkers want to dictate to us... that it was ALL about slavery, and ONLY about slavery. People that do that are "blamers", and want to assign ALL the blame to those evil rednecks in the South. But a look at the complexity of it would indicate that there is plenty of blame to share if that is what one is into, and they don't want us doing that because it throws sunshine on the issues of Federal supremacy that not only still exist, but are getting worse!!!
 

Andy54Hawken

Messages
13,916
Reactions
67,600
  • Army
  • Law Around Here
I have relatives who fought for the South in the 5th and 9th Kentucky Infantry.
Looking at family records they were small farm owners and horse breeders....with no records of owning any slaves.

It would be nice to have a narrative or journal of their service , maybe it could shed some light on "Why" they fought for who they did.

While the "Big Picture" is important ...the common man who fought , has a voice that is often forgotten or overlooked...I like to read first hand accounts of the War and other historic events....its one way that the common man from the past , can "live" forever.
Andy
 

bbbass

Messages
11,376
Reactions
24,255
Oppression of any group is ultimately economic, whether it be based on food sources, land grabs or finances. If your only 'wealth' is your blood and life, are you willing to spend it?
I'm feeling pretty oppressed here in Oregon. It's bad enough to have ideology I oppose in control of the state government, but they are up to their old tricks of passing "Emergency" bills, using "Gut and stuff" tactics, passing bills out of committee w/o public hearings, making sure that the minority party gets no input, etc. They are determined to force "safe storage" on us, and Cap and Trade is heading us for another walkout.
 

bbbass

Messages
11,376
Reactions
24,255
Looking at family records they were small farm owners and horse breeders....with no records of owning any slaves.
You think they might have been fighting for their country, their state, their brothers??? Perhaps they were fighting against somebody, rather than for something. It's an interesting thought to me. Many of the vets I have spoken to that were in combat have talked about fighting to protect their fellow vets. Maybe part of it?
 

clearconscience

Messages
9,740
Reactions
27,548
So more than likely their are multiple causes of the war and division in America at that time.
people who wish to push the slavery angle only tell half the story, howeverc, it it part of the story.
looking at the known documents and speeches at the time certain people are preaching about slavery others about taxes, others about westward expansion.
so more than likely all were causes and frustration coming from different people.

from the sound of Lincoln’s speeches he was probably a true politician and trying to keep a middle ground until he couldn’t.

neither the north or south cared much for African Americans. the north was just as racist and serrated as the south.

even during MLKs day, he said Chicago was more violent and racist than the south.

either way the the saying is true, those who refuse to remember history are doomed to repeat it.

here we are 200 years later and our govt and it’s people are still just as divided, over overtaxation and division of social classes.
 

clearconscience

Messages
9,740
Reactions
27,548
I'm feeling pretty oppressed here in Oregon. It's bad enough to have ideology I oppose in control of the state government, but they are up to their old tricks of passing "Emergency" bills, using "Gut and stuff" tactics, passing bills out of committee w/o public hearings, making sure that the minority party gets no input, etc. They are determined to force "safe storage" on us, and Cap and Trade is heading us for another walkout.
we hope they walk out!

The most important question during elections should be,
Do you feel you know what’s best for the masses?
Or will you follow the direction of the people who elected you?
Will you allow the voters to decided on measures that will affect the state or will you just disobey the people you are supposed to represent?
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

Oakanogan Gun Show
Oakanogan County Fairgrounds
175 Rodeo Trail, Okanogan, WA 98840, USA
Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Pistol
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA
Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Rifle
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA

LATEST RESOURCE REVIEWS

  • Lucky Sporting Goods
    5.00 star(s)
    Excellent service
  • 36 Pit
    3.00 star(s)
    I'm probably just reiterating what others have said, but I like hearing (seeing) myself speak. This gets 3 stars because when the place isn't...
  • Cascade Loan & Sporting Goods
    3.00 star(s)
    I am giving this review because at one time I was a really big customer there. Back in the day, I bought at least a dozen used guns from Cascade...
  • Cabela's - Tualatin
    1.00 star(s)
    Took the day off today to go see my cancer Dr in Potland and stopped by Cabelas on the way back to work. They were open an hour early (9:00) for...
  • Cabela's - Tualatin
    3.00 star(s)
    My review is from a visit I made to Cabela's at the start of May 2020. I was there strictly to shop for a Pietta black powder revolver. Because...
Top Bottom