Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

A liberal's case for the 2A

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Kevatc, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
    The video is more what I am referencing than the very brief article in he link. It was an interesting discussion.

    One of the things mentioned was that 40% of gun sales occur outside of the traditional gun store transaction and that one potential way to curb gun violence or preventing the wrong folks from getting guns was to do something about those non-traditional transactions. I can't agree with the idea of banning private gun sales per se but is there a "work around" on this issue to address straw purchasers and private sales to folks who shouldn't have guns (mentally ill folks and felons)?

    WATCH: A liberal author says guns are here to stay. Here’s how to live with them safely
     
  2. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    The author says that there are a lot of "illegal guns" out there, also repeats the old lie that having a gun in the home makes your home "more unsafe". Also says using a gun for protection will cause others to be shot, maybe that only happens in NY city when the cops shoot?
     
  3. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
    Like you, I disagree with this (bolded). However, I can agree that if a person owns a gun but isn't proficient with it's use then I think it is very reasonable to believe that a gun on your person could easily be used against you rather than one tool you could use to help you. I posted a thread in the Strategies and Tactics room that got plenty of feedback on this very idea.
     
  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    But the studies have shown it not to be true even in cases like you cite.
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,762
    Likes Received:
    4,938
    There is absolutely no way to know if this statement is even close to the truth it sure isn't a fact.

    "One of the things mentioned was that 40% of gun sales occur outside of the traditional gun store transaction"

    And so what the only part of that that has a thing to do with crime is the transactions involving someone not legally allowed to own a firearm. The transactions between two law abiding people following what ever laws the sale is regulated by has nothing to do with any crime present or future.

    As long as the act of murder is illegal what does the method matter anyway. IS someone less dead if a drunk runs over them? If someone stabs them or hits them on the head with a tire iron? NO dead is dead

    Guns are not the cause of the problem and since they are not the cause they can not be the solution.

    Poverty and over population is the problem. Fix that and the other problems go away.
     
    lazerblazer and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,762
    Likes Received:
    4,938

    Since the chances of being in a situtation where you would feel the need to draw a firearm out is so slim. The chances of that then being a person who is as you say untrained and then that that lack of training would somehow lead to the firearm being turned against the owner becomes such a small number its not even a real consern.

    Doctors killing people by doing stupid stuff now theres a real problem.
     
  7. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    The whole "having a gun in the house makes it more likely you will be injured by that gun" is not a lie, but it is a gross misuse of statistics. Of course you are more likely to be injured by a gun if there is one in your home. That is like saying you are more likely to die from falling down your basement stairs if you actually have a basement in your home. It is the only logical conclusion. That still doesn't make it a relevant statistic or make the actual risk measurably significant. Lets you have a next to zero chance of falling down the basement stairs if there are none, say 0/10,000,000 chance. Now lets say you have basement stairs but your chance of dying from falling down them is only 1/10,000,000. That chance is still so small it is inconsequential...but a person is correct in saying your chances are for more likely since 1 is much more than zero.
     
    carracer, Botte Hork, aksu747 and 9 others like this.
  8. Kelzebubba

    Kelzebubba Fort Worth, TX/USA Public Outhouse Active Member

    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    178
    Uh oh PlayboyPenguin, it looks like you caught someone's faulty math. Better watch out or you will be brought to a re-education camp to be taught 2+2 = whatever they say it is that day.
     
    fd15k and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Slobray

    Slobray Yelm, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    1,530
    The Peoples Republik of Kalifornistan has a work around for the statement above. The PRK makes every sale of a firearm go through a FFL, no exceptions. They call it a Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS). They charge you $25, $15 of which goes to the state and the FFL gets to keep $10. Once you do the paperwork and pay your fee the FFL keeps you firearm in jail for 10 days. It's just a way for the anti’s, I mean state to.....
    1) make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns,
    2) extort more money from gun owners,
    3) to keep track of all guns and gun sales (and some say owners also)
    4) keep the peasants under control

    It hasn't worked in the PRK (look at the crime stats), it's just another way for the anti's/liberals to make getting, buying and or having a gun harder. All in the hopes of if they make it hard enough for the average person to get a gun, they may just say that it's not worth the effort and give up.

    Ray
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    The author was fine until confronted by the raving ant-moonbat, then he immediately caved on everything.

    I'm glad to see the author jumping off the crazed anti bandwagon, but he's still not on board in a bunch of different ways. I would have given the anti a verbal smackdown based on facts, started with the ludicrous "43 times more likely to..." nonsense which has been debunked repeated and indisputably for 30 year years. If the author wasn't even prepared to deal with THAT ridiculous trope, he was definitely not prepared for this interview.
     
  11. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
    As mentioned in the OP it wasn't the article I was referring to but rather the discussion on the video.
     
  12. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,440
    Likes Received:
    491
    I guess when I sold two 50+ year old rifles in Los Angeles (being CA resident) in a parking lot a couple of years ago I committed a felony... Nah, I just knew that there are in fact some exceptions :D
     
  13. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    2,266
    I would really like to know what percent of liberals are 2A and would fight and stand up to the radical progressive anti gunners . If we are talking a small % than why is anything a liberal have to say about the subject relevant cause it just pretend.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. 4NONISSUE

    4NONISSUE south sound Member

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    25
    We should pass a law making all Democrats (or anyone in government for that matter) go to the middle east , Israel or any Hot-zone and serve a tour in a combat unit protecting our rights & country and see what they think when they get back!
     
  15. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    671
    So only Repub's/Con's serve in the military??? Your point??? Never mind as it has zero to do with the subject.
     
  16. 4NONISSUE

    4NONISSUE south sound Member

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    25
    Did not mean to offend hence the "(or anyone in government for that matter) "
    My point being in Kali most of the people running the state government never served and have not a clue that armed law bidding citizens are not the problem and making it harder for someone who is law bidding is not solving anything.
     
  17. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    4,833
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Actually, I do believe the last study done showed the opposite. The children of democrats where more likely to serve in the armed forces than republicans. Most likely I would say because more republicans have money.
     
  18. Horses are delicious

    Horses are delicious Willamette Valley Active Member

    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    82
    I love the fact that I tend to vote Dem and am a passionate shooter and hunter. I don't see those two facts as being in conflict with each other. If a politician gets squirrely and tries to come between me and the constitution (ALL of it, not just the 2nd Ammendment) then I step up my game and make my wishes known. If that doesn't work I get active and try to make sure they don't get reelected. If you check the NRA literature for Oregon regarding the 2012 election, you will see that even they urged you to vote for a few Democrats based of 2A issues.
    Stop playing the party game. Accept some responsibility and participate in the republic that you belong to.
    Support strong states rights? Then let California (sorry for not using a cute spelling ) go and focus your efforts elsewhere or move back and get to work fighting for what you believe in. There used to be signs at the Oregon border that encouraged visitors to "Enjoy your visit."

    The author in the video was a guest on a cable "news" show. He was there to promote his product. I will actually read his book and see what he has to say because although I don't identify as a LIBERAL, I do believe in a fair shake for all Americans. Pretty radical, I know. I got that one from Teddy Roosevelt (Republican), I also believe that the biggest corporate earners and employers should be taxed as such (Ronald Reagan) and that the Federal Gov't should fully fund conservation efforts to preserve wildlife habitat and conservation (GW Bush).
    Did I mention that I tend to vote Dem?
    And I love the shooting sports?
    Oh, and Northwest Firearms is pretty kick a@@ too.
     
  19. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    613
    The one thing I liked was at the start the author stated "the 2nd admentment did not create the right but was created to recognize the right" which means it is a God given right.
     
  20. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Clearly, you must be labeled. And since you cannot be labeled within the C vs. L dualism, you must be whatever EVIL label the Cs confine you into.
     
    Botte Hork and (deleted member) like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.