A good .308?

[Certaindeaf]

The Princessandthepea/2000 rawks!
Code for all .308's are good.

 

[B5Ben]

Any thoughts on the Zastava PAP M77 .308? I've got an NPAP AK and really like it. I thought it might be nice to have a semi-auto .308 for far less dollars than most other .308 semi autos.

Or would it be worth a little more to go with a VEPR?

I think accuracy on any AKM will not be there in comparison to an AR or M1A platform. I would expect it to function 100% and this does not mean I don't want a .30 cal VEPR because I do. I really want one in 7.62x54R but would not expect the same accuracy from it that I get out of my AR-10. Again, all depends on the role the rifle is intended to fulfill.

 

[etrain16]

I think accuracy on any AKM will not be there in comparison to an AR or M1A platform. I would expect it to function 100% and this does not mean I don't want a .30 cal VEPR because I do. I really want one in 7.62x54R but would not expect the same accuracy from it that I get out of my AR-10. Again, all depends on the role the rifle is intended to fulfill.

I'd love to get one in 7.62x54 - maybe some day. Before that, I do have an AR10 build I'm hoping to get started one of these days.

 

[The Heretic]

I had two Valmets (the Rolls Royce of AKs) in .308, one in heavy long barrel config - I also had several other AKs in 762x39 and 556. How I hated giving up those Valmets, but when the mags got to be $150 each and no more were coming into the country due to the AWB, I decided I should get something more conventional.

None of them ever did any better than 2.5 MOA regardless of type of manufacturer, chambering, ammo and scope mounts.

I am an AK fan, but I would really be surprised if anyone ever found a typical AK (i.e., not some special variant designed and made differently), put a scope on it, and got better than 2 MOA from it.

That just isn't what they are made for.

 

[mjbskwim]

I had two Valmets (the Rolls Royce of AKs) in .308, one in heavy long barrel config - I also had several other AKs in 762x39 and 556. How I hated giving up those Valmets, but when the mags got to be $150 each and no more were coming into the country due to the AWB, I decided I should get something more conventional.

None of them ever did any better than 2.5 MOA regardless of type of manufacturer, chambering, ammo and scope mounts.

I am an AK fan, but I would really be surprised if anyone ever found a typical AK (i.e., not some special variant designed and made differently), put a scope on it, and got better than 2 MOA from it.

That just isn't what they are made for.

Think of how much trouble it is to scope them.
Just not made for real accuracy.

 

[The Heretic]

Think of how much trouble it is to scope them.
Just not made for real accuracy.

Scout Scope mounts are now available for many AK variants. I shot a Norinco in 556 with a very solidly mounted scope using a mount attached to the side of the receiver and I used various ammo, including US made match grade ammo and the best I ever got was 2.5 MOA.

They are made for reliability and durability, not for small groups at the target.

 

[Boboclown]

How would an AR-10 with a piston be compared to an M1A/M14?

Not that I'm deadset on an AR-10, still more into an M14, just curious is all.

 

[The Heretic]

If you are interested in the AR platform, there are a number of manufacturers that make a lower and upper system that allows you to switch between 5.56 and 7.62x51.

Not sure if that would interest you (the cost is often comparable to getting another rifle altogether).

The other things about the AR platform that seems an advantage to me is the ability to swap uppers, the extensive aftermarket accessories available, and a good portion of those accessories and services are aimed at making the platform very accurate, if that is something you are strongly interested in that.

 

[Boboclown]

I'm just interested in a gas piston AR-10, nothing against the DI but I just prefer a piston over gas. Also for a DMR set-up, would a 16 inch barrel be good or should I at least get an 18 inch? Also, switching out the barrel from 16 to 18, simple change or do I need to change anything?

 

[B5Ben]

I like piston better as well but have a DI AR10 that is great. The DI from what I understand can be more accurate with everything else the same due to no piston mass movement while firing. I recently bought an M14 and favor my AR10 much more. Lighter weight, better ergonomics, ease of mounting a scope, and after market is endless. I do prefer the rock-in mags on the M14 but they still aren't as good as the rock-in on an FAL.

 

[Boboclown]

What kind of recoil would there be on a gas piston AR-10 with a 16 inch barrel?

 

[B5Ben]

Recoil on the AR10 is more than the M1A just due to weight difference. There are things that can negate some of it but even with a good brake, my AR10 has more recoil that the M1A and FAL (which are both piston operated but also heavier).

 

[B5Ben]

And IMO I would do an 18" barrel at the minimum on a 308. It will calm the report a bit and get more velocity. Mine is 18" and wish it were 20".

 

[Boboclown]

Well, if I had a 16 inch barrel originally, would I be able to just switch over to an 18 on the same upper? Or would I have to change anything on it? Such as a longer piston?

 

[mjbskwim]

A 308 AR's recoil isn't anything.Not much different than an FAL,as i have shot both the same day.
If recoil in an AR is a problem for you,you need a different hobby and platform
Heck my 308 bolt gun with the hard old red recoil pad isn't much to worry about

 

[Boboclown]

Recoil isn't too much of an issue, I'm just curious if there'd be a noticeable difference between one with a 16 inch and one with a 18 inch barrel.

Only time I don't like recoil is off the bench, but only because I don't notice recoil as much when shooting off-hand. /shrug

 

[mjbskwim]

I shot the 16in my friend had out. i would guess the 18 would be a little less,but doubt you would feel much difference until the 20in barrel
Now as far as ballistics go,I'm not sure but believe the 18in does look better.

 

[Boboclown]

I just don't like going any smaller than an 18 inch barrel for .308/7.62 NATO rifles. Unfortunately the AR-10 I want comes with a 16 inch barrel, the only piston one I can find with an 18 inch barrel is the Sig 716.

Though for hunting I can almost see the need for a shorter rifle, but when you get used to carrying around a (roughly) 44 inch rifle, that sort of becomes a non-issue.

 

[U8395279]

Recoil on the AR10 is more than the M1A just due to weight difference. There are things that can negate some of it but even with a good brake, my AR10 has more recoil that the M1A and FAL (which are both piston operated but also heavier).

A generalization like that is never valid. There are just too many variables involved.

And there are los of things that one can easily do with a 308 AR to mitigate recoil, from installing a good muzzle brake, to using a custom buffer and buffer spring, to installing an adjustable gas block.

 

[Boboclown]

The AR I'm looking at weighs about 9 pounds unloaded. Add the weight of a bi-pod and scope it'll weigh even more. Also comes with a muzzle brake, which in time will be replaced with a suppressor, just so I don't need ear protection when hunting.