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9mm for the woods

PNWguy

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I built it to replace a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt I modified a year earlier to be a camping carbine. I really liked the concept of having a long gun around camp and in my UTV when out in the woods. But the Marlin was really heavy (around 11lbs) and was having feeding issues.

The Marlin was cool, though...

rU5FajBEOLeHyWHkKu3ptNylrIGJiyGmNvx18deWa04pX92IB.jpg
 

PNWguy

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I built it to replace a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt I modified a year earlier to be a camping carbine. I really liked the concept of having a long gun around camp and in my UTV when out in the woods. But the Marlin was really heavy (around 11lbs) and was having feeding issues.

The Marlin was cool, though...

View attachment 544259
 
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I just happened to remember something from my youth,I read a lot of hunting and shooting magazines back then, and a fair number of them printed stories about hunting cougars they would have hounds and the hounds would finally tree the cat and, the hunter or guide would walk up near the tree and finish the cat with a 22Lr, usually with a head shot, their skull isn't particularly hard or thick, so I guess a 9mm wouldn't have too much to do in killing one, the bear having a thicker skull and more meat bones and fat would probably be a bit more difficult to kill!
All my info is second hand as I've never killed either a lion or a bear, but the articles I read about the lion hunters were attested to as true stories. Many even had photos , and this was way before photo shop!
Perhaps some of you have access to old field and stream and hunting magazines and can find those stories to bear me out.
Gabby
 
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In the PNW -- Bear Spray for the critters if it helps you be at ease. HSTs, Ranger Ts (or whatever your desired proven SD pill of choice is) for the 2-legged variety.

Outside of the N. Cascades, one's chances of running into a Brown Bear are essentially nil. The Black Bears around here are not akin to the ones found out East in places like Tennessee, Pennsylvania or further up North in Canada or AK.

Most all of the attacks(non-fatal) that happen out here are hunters that have recently shot(but not dispatched) the bears. Fatal bear attacks are extremely rare in the PNW.

As for cats, the recent fatal attack here in Oregon was the 1st in recorded history, and the one up in WA. a few months back was the 1st in 80 some years IIRC.

Remember where you are. You're not in GNP or YNP, nor are you in Kenai or Katmai.

As suggested in this thread. The biggest concern in the woods around here is coming across some 2-leggeds up to no good.

That all stated, when hiking in the woods around here, I'm packing 340 gr +p+ pills a la BB in my RH. Why? 'cause I can.

I've got no worries when the wife goes out hunting for mushrooms with her 9mm. She's a better shot than I am.
 

osprey

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In the PNW -- Bear Spray for the critters if it helps you be at ease. HSTs, Ranger Ts (or whatever your desired proven SD pill of choice is) for the 2-legged variety.

Outside of the N. Cascades, one's chances of running into a Brown Bear are essentially nil. The Black Bears around here are not akin to the ones found out East in places like Tennessee, Pennsylvania or further up North in Canada or AK.

Most all of the attacks(non-fatal) that happen out here are hunters that have recently shot(but not dispatched) the bears. Fatal bear attacks are extremely rare in the PNW.

As for cats, the recent fatal attack here in Oregon was the 1st in recorded history, and the one up in WA. a few months back was the 1st in 80 some years IIRC.

Remember where you are. You're not in GNP or YNP, nor are you in Kenai or Katmai.

As suggested in this thread. The biggest concern in the woods around here is coming across some 2-leggeds up to no good.

That all stated, when hiking in the woods around here, I'm packing 340 gr +p+ pills a la BB in my RH. Why? 'cause I can.

I've got no worries when the wife goes out hunting for mushrooms with her 9mm. She's a better shot than I am.
Those must be some tough shrooms for your wife to need a 9mm to hunt them. :cool:
 
I'm curious what animals some of you guys are encountering here on Washington's hiking trails that make you want to carry a long gun? Prior to the cougar attack last year, the last fatal cougar attack in Washington was in 1924. I've been hiking for years in Washington and have never been attacked by wildlife. Carry whatever you want if it's legal, but a long gun for protection on the trails is probably unnecessary. If there's good data to suggest otherwise, I'm all for it, but I think carrying a pistol in any service caliber is already more than enough if you don't want to use bear spray or just want to have both.
I'm about 20 minutes tops to I-205 and have come upon black bears (yeah, black) eating out of the berry patch in my yard. Scared the shyte out of me as I rounded the corner with berry bowl in hand to pick. Should have known something was up as the day before the deer were VERY spooked, skittish, snorting, and running startled over any little thing. Thar's yer sign (along with plenty of bear scat).
Cougar pass through and onto my property and range far, been sighted crossing highway 213 in daylight, and I've come upon fresh tracks many times down by a stream not even 1 mile from my home.

I don't know how many times over the years I've 'rescued' city people who come dragging up the dirt road, lost, dehydrated, no idea where they're at. When they explain where they've been I say "oh, yeah, cougar country" they go pale. As I drive them back to their car I regale them with stories of the 'wildlife' out this way. Had a cat scream not 15 yards from my home in the dead of night. Do I go up to the mail box at night when I've forgotten to get the mail? Um. No. Also have plenty of coyotes who, if you switch the outside light on, hunker down and stare until you go back in, er, I think it's coyotes, not willing to find out lol.

Recent encounter with a 70+ senior woman out with her walking stick, alone, in those woods. Told her there are cougar here and she should at least be with another person or armed. She scoffed. Oh no, cougar will run away from me. No one wants to believe me, poo poo it. Not even 1/2 mile from where she was standing there's a bone pile with probably at least 4 deer drug to it, consumed there. Closest house to that bone pile I could hit with a good swing of a baseball bat on ball. Thar's yer sign.

City folks move out this way and routinely lose 'Fluffy' and can't figure that one out. Don't let your dogs out without a fence in daytime, there is a leash law in this county, and don't let them out at night to p in your yard, cats either, because they WILL disappear. No one listens.

Long time neighbor who moved a few years back routinely lost her sheep and goats to bear, coyote and cougar (if not new-to-country city people's dogs not on leash). Just because you can zip along curvy country roads at 60mph in your rice burner/lexus/prius, disregarding the very real threat of deer who routinely cross the road, does not mean that you are in 'civilization'. I would never walk these woods unarmed. That goes for 2 legged or 4 legged predators. Ya can't fix stupid.

p.s. Word has it that last cougar attack was no cougar.
 

PNWguy

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City folks move out this way and routinely lose 'Fluffy' and can't figure that one out. Don't let your dogs out without a fence in daytime, there is a leash law in this county, and don't let them out at night to p in your yard, cats either, because they WILL disappear. No one listens.

Long time neighbor who moved a few years back routinely lost her sheep and goats to bear, coyote and cougar (if not new-to-country city people's dogs not on leash). Just because you can zip along curvy country roads at 60mph in your rice burner/lexus/prius, disregarding the very real threat of deer who routinely cross the road, does not mean that you are in 'civilization'. I would never walk these woods unarmed. That goes for 2 legged or 4 legged predators. Ya can't fix stupid.
Yeah, over on the West side, the predators are quite a bit bolder because generally folks over there don't shoot them.

City folks just don't get it; if you believe in a Disneyfied world of wild animals being just like people and breaking out in song when you're not looking, then you will be sorely disappointed with reality.

Wild animals will become desensitized to humans and no longer see them as a threat or a predator. That, coupled with expanding suburbs, is why there are increased interactions with cougars, coyotes, and bears.

Then you have the whole wolf issue, which is a blatant example of leftists (and a lot of conservatives) having a skewed and urbanized view of man vs nature.

You can argue all you want about how wolves are a key component of the ecosystem and are needed to naturally maintain healthy deer and elk populations. The bottom line is that they were removed and replaced by a new apex predator; man.

We were doing just fine in maintaining elk and deer herds through hunting management. But wolf advocates are generally anti-hunting and anti-human.
 
As in what? Wolf? Bigfoot?
Escapee from Bangaledeshi mental prison, suffering from a old treefrog judo injury (backwards hopping limp) who had stowed away on a A-3800 three years ago then secreted in the Seattle sanctuary underground until big bad Trump threatened to huff and puff and deport him. He then sought refuge in the woods until said incident.
 

PNWguy

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Escapee from Bangaledeshi mental prison, suffering from a old treefrog judo injury (backwards hopping limp) who had stowed away on a A-3800 three years ago then secreted in the Seattle sanctuary underground until big bad Trump threatened to huff and puff and deport him. He then sought refuge in the woods until said incident.
Wow. They really can get a lot of info from forensics these days...

:p
 
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Once the bear spotted you, did it remain in the berry patch or did it leave? Most that I've seen are somewhat timid. Like you, I definitely would encourage being prepared with something to defend yourself, but I do think that a bear attack here is unlikely. My disagreement was mostly with the idea that a 9mm +p or bear spray would not be reasonable/sufficient for wildlife protection in WA. I do find it a bit odd that some people are strong believers in long gun carry for wildlife protection here, when the odds of wildlife attack are rather low. Do these same people also believe they need to carry a long gun in town for protection? It kind of reminds me of the Chipotle open carry people in that picture that had been circulating around the internet.

I'm about 20 minutes tops to I-205 and have come upon black bears (yeah, black) eating out of the berry patch in my yard. Scared the shyte out of me as I rounded the corner with berry bowl in hand to pick. Should have known something was up as the day before the deer were VERY spooked, skittish, snorting, and running startled over any little thing. Thar's yer sign (along with plenty of bear scat).
Cougar pass through and onto my property and range far, been sighted crossing highway 213 in daylight, and I've come upon fresh tracks many times down by a stream not even 1 mile from my home.

I don't know how many times over the years I've 'rescued' city people who come dragging up the dirt road, lost, dehydrated, no idea where they're at. When they explain where they've been I say "oh, yeah, cougar country" they go pale. As I drive them back to their car I regale them with stories of the 'wildlife' out this way. Had a cat scream not 15 yards from my home in the dead of night. Do I go up to the mail box at night when I've forgotten to get the mail? Um. No. Also have plenty of coyotes who, if you switch the outside light on, hunker down and stare until you go back in, er, I think it's coyotes, not willing to find out lol.

Recent encounter with a 70+ senior woman out with her walking stick, alone, in those woods. Told her there are cougar here and she should at least be with another person or armed. She scoffed. Oh no, cougar will run away from me. No one wants to believe me, poo poo it. Not even 1/2 mile from where she was standing there's a bone pile with probably at least 4 deer drug to it, consumed there. Closest house to that bone pile I could hit with a good swing of a baseball bat on ball. Thar's yer sign.

City folks move out this way and routinely lose 'Fluffy' and can't figure that one out. Don't let your dogs out without a fence in daytime, there is a leash law in this county, and don't let them out at night to p in your yard, cats either, because they WILL disappear. No one listens.

Long time neighbor who moved a few years back routinely lost her sheep and goats to bear, coyote and cougar (if not new-to-country city people's dogs not on leash). Just because you can zip along curvy country roads at 60mph in your rice burner/lexus/prius, disregarding the very real threat of deer who routinely cross the road, does not mean that you are in 'civilization'. I would never walk these woods unarmed. That goes for 2 legged or 4 legged predators. Ya can't fix stupid.

p.s. Word has it that last cougar attack was no cougar.
 

PNWguy

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I do find it a bit odd that some people are strong believers in long gun carry for wildlife protection here, when the odds of wildlife attack are rather low. Do these same people also believe they need to carry a long gun in town for protection? It kind of reminds me of the Chipotle open carry people in that picture that had been circulating around the internet.
A handgun is a horrible weapon for defense and falls into the better than nothing category. Anyone who has served in the military in a combat role knows this. Handguns are carried in town for self-defense because they are easy to conceal and are a compromise.

Long guns are vastly superior in accuracy, capacity, and power. If you can carry one, it is better than a handgun.

It's really pretty straightforward logic and common sense.
 
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A handgun is a horrible weapon for defense and falls into the better than nothing category. Anyone who has served in the military in a combat role knows this. Handguns are carried in town for self-defense because they are easy to conceal and are a compromise.

Long guns are vastly superior in accuracy, capacity, and power. If you can carry one, it is better than a handgun.

It's really pretty straightforward logic and common sense.
I've carried both handguns and rifles in the military. I know that handguns have quite a few limitations. My point is that bear attacks are quite uncommon here and that lugging around a long gun is probably not necessary. You may be very attached to carrying a long gun and can carry that around if you want, but it seems like a lot of trouble to haul that around for an extremely rare situation. When I'm out hiking and could gain 3000-5000 feet of elevation in a day, a rifle has probably the poorest ratio of usefulness to weight when compared to other equipment I'd rather have with me. Your activities may be different, but I don't tend to attract predatory wildlife when I go out to do outdoor recreation. Obviously, if I were expecting to be attacked, I would want the rifle instead of a handgun, but I don't reasonably expect to be attacked by wild animals. Have been camping, hiking for years and have never been attacked. On the occasion I have seen a bear, there was no need for violence.
 

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