80% gun sale question

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pdx1

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I see a lot of people building the 80% stuff.
Seen a few of the completed builds in the classifieds..
Since it doesn't come with a serial number, how does one transfer at a FFL?
 
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I'm far too lazy to dig up the specific references, but a homemade gun built without intent to resell can be sold later on under Federal law if the person who made it engraves it with a serial, and their name and city it was made in, just like a manufacturer.
 
I see a lot of people building the 80% stuff.
Seen a few of the completed builds in the classifieds..
Since it doesn't come with a serial number, how does one transfer at a FFL?
From the ATF:

When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a “firearm” must have markings, including a serial number. See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements).
 
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I see a lot of people building the 80% stuff.
Seen a few of the completed builds in the classifieds..
Since it doesn't come with a serial number, how does one transfer at a FFL?
This gets brought up every so often. It "looks" like it can be done. Personally I would not for any amount of money buy one made, or sell one I made. The possible legal hassle somewhere down the line would never be worth it to me. Probably never be a problem but, for the cost of a gun? No thanks. Either build it yourself or buy one from a dealer.
 

drewp

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turning a 80% into a gun isnt rocket science and wouldn't hesitate buying one after a quick look at the quaility.
if you didnt intend to sell it you are ok to sell and ok to buy one.
the issue is in oregon we have to do background checks and I dont know of any dealers that have done one.
just put some numbers and a name on it.
the dealer will state the manufacturer as ZZZ or XXX or whatever it is they use for brands that arent in the system.
 

The Heretic

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I've had alot of people offer reloaded ammo as trade over the years...Id be way way way way way more worried about someones reloaded ammo before a 80 percent.
THis ^^

E.G., most 80% AR-15 are somebody milling out the lower and assembling it with trigger parts/etc., which is really little different from buying a stripped lower, then they slap an already assembled upper they bought from some outfit. It is the upper that is the safety concern as that is where the pressure is. All of my 80% ARs are of this nature.

If the lower isn't assembled right, you probably are not going to get a kaboom, but you might get trigger problems or the upper not fitting the lower right or something like that. So you just buy a stripped lower for $50 and swap the parts into it and you are off and running again.

Reloaded ammo? I won't buy it even from a commercial outfit - you have no idea how many times it has been reloaded or with what and I have had a kaboom (blown out case at the web) - in fact, that was one of my first posts here IIRC. Luckily only a slight injury - a burn on the hand.
 

bbbass

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If it is just the rcvr I would not hesitate if it looked good. Not materially different than buying a receiver anywhere else.

I've related this before, but here goes:

I completed an 80% lower to give a build to my daughter a few years ago. I looked very seriously into all the rules. There is NO prohibition on selling a completed 80% lower as long as you are not "in the business", which would make you a "manufacturer" (if so, the rules for manufacturers come into play).

The requirements for serializing in the CFRs (as promulgated from the GCA), other than a very confusing general statement, all pertain to "manufacturers". Therefore, I conclude that a non-manufacturer is not required to serialize, under the legal theory that if it is not prohibited, it is allowed. YMMV. Some have said that ALL firearms are required to have serial numbers, another confusing generality that does not match existing law re: 80% builds.

BTW, ask 10 different FFLs and you will get 15 different answers!!!

That said, the dealer needs to have something on the paperwork. Some have mentioned writing "other" or somesuch. However, I have found it easier to make something up and engrave it into the rcvr. I used my initials, my town, and my daughters birthdate backwards. Since we are not a manufacturer, we don't have to meet the specs required for serializing, ie, letter size, engraving depth, and so on. Even so, when this firearm arrived at her FFL in AR, a pawn shop, he panicked and called the BATF, they had a good laugh at him and gave him and edjumacation.

BTW, ask 5 different BATF agents and you will get 15 different answers.

Just do it. :D
 
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AMT

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If it is just the rcvr I would not hesitate if it looked good. Not materially different than buying a receiver anywhere else.

I've related this before, but here goes:

I completed an 80% lower to give a build to my daughter a few years ago. I looked very seriously into all the rules. There is NO prohibition on selling a completed 80% lower as long as you are not "in the business", which would make you a "manufacturer" (if so, the rules for manufacturers come into play).

The requirements for serializing in the CFRs, other than a very confusing general statement, all pertain to "manufacturers". Therefore, I conclude that a non-manufacturer is not required to serialize, under the legal theory that if it is not prohibited, it is allowed. YMMV. Some have said that ALL firearms are required to have serial numbers, another confusing generality that does not match existing law re: 80% builds.

BTW, ask 10 different FFLs and you will get 15 different answers!!!

That said, the dealer needs to have something on the paperwork. Some have mentioned writing "other" or somesuch. However, I have found it easier to make something up and engrave it into the rcvr. I used my initials, my town, and my daughters birthdate backwards. Since we are not a manufacturer, we don't have to meet the specs required for serializing, ie, letter size, engraving depth, and so on. Even so, when this firearm arrived at her FFL in AR, a pawn shop, he panicked and called the BATF, they had a good laugh at him and gave him and edjumacation.

BTW, ask 5 different BATF agents and you will get 15 different answers.

Just do it. :D

This is my exact recollection too. I remember running across the ATF documentation that stated it. I saved some place safe :)confused:)for later reference.

If I remember correctly, it said that if you are doing it for profit as a business......

If/when I find it, I will post it.
 
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bbbass

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This is my exact recollection too. I remember running across the ATF documentation that stated it. I saved some place safe :)confused:) for later reference.

If I remember correctly, it said that if you are doing it for profit as a business......

If/when I find it, I will post it.

Yes, it's been around a lot, and now it's hard to find, and their website has gotten even more confusing. :confused:
 

bbbass

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When I find something that is of major importance I copy it on paper. I know things change but you have proof (at that time) that you were legal.
The world is upside down and right is wrong and wrong is right and you can't be 100% sure that because it was legal then it is still legal now! Them is trick bastids that exist only to create more and new laws and regs every day to justify their paychecks.
 

AMT

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The world is upside down and right is wrong and wrong is right and you can't be 100% sure that because it was legal then it is still legal now! Them is trick bastids that exist only to create more and new laws and regs every day to justify their paychecks.

That is why attorneys usually write laws. To confuse everyone, and so it can be interpreted 100 different ways. :confused:

I found this so far. Interpret as you see fit....
Firearms Rulings | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Specifically:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2015-1-manufacturing-and-gunsmithing/download
 
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