80% build tips

[Yarome]

...wouldn't trust bare pins holes for anything long term. A DIY anodizing and cerakote will do the trick though.

Thanks for sharing. We are just getting ready to do our first builds and that was my understanding... that once the anodization is removed the bare aluminum looses it's hardened layer so pin wear enlarging the holes over time may be an issue.

We we're planning on using Aluma Hyde to the milled pocket and pin holes. Any thoughts on that product?

 

[Tomahawk67]

Saying that the unanodized pinholes of completed 80's will corrode or wear out fast is a testament to reading too many posts on the internet from hypothetical metallurgists that got their information from the internet.

 

[Yarome]

Saying that the unanodized pinholes of completed 80's will corrode or wear out fast is a testament to reading too many posts on the internet from hypothetical metallurgists that got their information from the internet.

Or from guys that have put more than 50,000rnds through multiple AR's they own (fully anodized and not) and distinctly notice the differences in slack pin holds and constant battles with pin walk between the two.... that most may never realize in their lifetime shooting 300rnds a month during the 2-3 years they've been shooting their builds.... maybe? I know.... just throw some anti-walk/anti-rotate pins in and you'll never an issue. Kind of funny though, isn't it? Such products exist to solve a problem that should never happen... according to "legend".

I know... a myth created by the parts mfg's to convince us we NEED those pins... at 3-4 times the profit for them. The gunners version of Valentine's day! It's a conspiracy I tell you!

After all... we all see the classifieds and there is hardly ever an AR for sale that has more than 500-1000rnds through them, right? (Being sarcastic) ;-) It makes more sense to me that the guys claiming it makes no difference with no more than 5000rnds through their rifles have never experienced those issues... are now "experts"... and make the claims and perpetuate the internet myths than the other way around.

Metalurgists, armorers and operators that are out shooting their firearms to their limits... what can I say? I hold their professional opinions in higher regard than the weekend builder/casual plinker. Call me a sucker. ;-)

Will I shoot my build to it's limits? Not likely. However, it's a very inexpensive process that takes little effort or expertise. Why "not" do it?

[All said "tongue-in-cheek" and not trying to flame anyone. I just find humor in the argument.]

 

[Tomahawk67]

Just as an example of steel vs. aluminum. The tubing bender I use to bend all my tubing for roll cages , suspension, tube chassis, etc is a hydraulic Mittler Bros and uses aluminum bendig dies and follow block.
I routinely bend .120 wall tube and sometimes thicker .156 wall , and have been using it for about 12 years. The die sets have yet to show any signs of deformation or corrosion from the variety of seamed , seamless and 4130 tubing.
As for my finished 80% lowers, some have well over 5-8k rounds through them and show no signs of sloppy holes or corrosion.
The process of getting the raw portions of an anodized completed lower anodized would be cost prohibitive as you cannot anozize over anodizing and the lower would have to be stripped to raw before being reanodized. I have had a couple of raw uppers and lowers anodized prior to machining and the cost was more than the lower. I'm gonna say that the cost of stripping the anodizing and then reanodizing would be more. These are my personal experience and not something I have read on the internet.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Raw 80%s are cheap, and $15 to anodize it seems cheap and easy to not have to worry.

And yes its all theoretical, but I work with raw aluminum and steel for a living, and dont like the ldea of raw aluminum in a firearm.

 

[Tomahawk67]

Raw 80%s are cheap, and $15 to anodize it seems cheap and easy to not have to worry.

And yes its all theoretical, but I work with raw aluminum and steel for a living, and dont like the ldea of raw aluminum in a firearm.

I don't know if you've ever had anything hard black anodized, but it's a little bit over 15$.

 

[turbo_vanner]

I don't know if you've ever had anything hard black anodized, but it's a little bit over 15$.

I have actually... have you?

Matte Black Hard-Coat Anodizing Service - New Frontier Armory, LLC

 

[Tomahawk67]

I have actually... have you?

Matte Black Hard-Coat Anodizing Service - New Frontier Armory, LLC

I can dig up the receipt if you want. It won't be a link. First off , the blasting charge for prep was more than 15$ I had 2 lowers done and a couple uppers. It was about 4 years ago in San Diego. It was at A to Z metal finishing. Their minimum anodizing charge is 125$ this doesn't include the prep. I blasted the lowers in my blast cabinet prior to drop off, but they still blasted them again because they had been handled. The blasting charge was 60$.

 

[Tomahawk67]

Here's the people who do high volume production anodizing for DD, LWRC , KAC and others pricing guide.
Welcome to US Anodizing

 

[turbo_vanner]

Well, the times are a changin'. Their $15 price included everything but shipping. I got 4 lowers done for $76. Prep and everything.

Ourside of that particular company though, yes, it is pretty spendy, and apparently a rip off.

 

[Yarome]

I've never used an anodizing service, but looking into which route to take with our lowers it seems as if we had 5 choices. As I saw it...

1. Go raw and stay raw.
2. Go raw and finish with a self applied (or service) duracoat/cerakote/alumahyde finish.
3. Go raw and send in for full anodizing.
4. Go anodized and stay with raw milled.
5. Go anodized and finish with a self applied (or service) duracoat/cerakote/alumahyde finish.

1 being the cheapest, least hassle and with the softest exterior/contact surfaces.
2 being more cost effective than full anodization. Somewhat less durable surfaces than anodized. Self applying... results (and appearance) may be less than desired. Aka... I could probably find a way to turn it into some of the DIY "G"-aweful messes I've seen around on the internet. Using a service to do it would run less than anodizing but still on the steep side. Great option for personal color choices.
3 being the most preferred (to me), hardest surfaces in and out, most expensive (by far) and tolerance considerations would be a must when drilling/milling, which I didn't feel comfortable doing... and more than I wanted to spend.
4 being an easy, highly cost effective (not really any more than option 1), most durable outer surfaces, but compromising the inners, which "likely" wouldn't be an issue... but might be a good idea to consider anti-rotation pins or a drop in fire group.
5 being the compromise, to me. All the best of #4 with a mix of #2. Not as hard/dense as anodizing but pretty damn good... at a considerably lower cost than many options and fairly idiot proof. Meaning... even if I muck up the spray on I really don't care how my internal "looks"... I just want a harder/denser finish than raw.

So for me and my house... I went forged anodized ($40) and a $13 can of alumahyde. I also read that bake on ceramic/hi-heat/automotive type spray in/on paints are popular... but likely not as durable (?) as some others. Ie., dura/cera/aluma kotes.

After spending over $400 on the jig to turn a $40 lower 80 into a functional firearm... not to even mention how much more went in to turn the pew switch on... I figured it couldn't hurt to spring the 13 bones for the hardest/most durable finish I'm able to apply at home.

I'm not arguing personal choices... just listing the options I considered as I understand them... tained by "my" own personal preferences. If it was my daughter doing her purple (sorry, daughter daughter... "amethyst") lower... I would go a completely different direction.

 

[jimmeh]

If you join the 5D jig fan group on Facebook, there is a guy on there that'll cerakote for a fair price with virtually any color you want. He does it from his house. He's one of the admins of the group there.

I started that Facebook group a couple years ago, but am not on FB anymore. Should anyone have any q's on the 5D jig, lemme know and I'll see if I can't answer them for ya.

I've got an AR9 that I jigged up from my 5D jig. Have a Geiselle SSA-E trigger on it. More than 8k rounds through it and no issues with the pin holes at all thus far. The lowers are a Glock, and a Colt pattern one. Colt is bare aluminum, and the Glock is anodized, but the holes are bare aluminum as I never coated them after drilling through it.

I love that 5D jig. Seriously the best jig I've ever used. I have two other kinds from different manufacturers that never worked out near as well as the 5D did.

 

[jimmeh]

- make sure your shop vac fits the pro adapter it will make clean up easier. Although it was nice to be able to vacuum out everything after each pass. So maybe two shop vacs or easy detach from the jig.

Take some flexible styrofoam and stuff it in the open spaces between the jig and the lower. You'll notice that your vacuum will pick up more than 95% of the flakes and slivers from the milling process. Whenever I get that flexible white styrofoam in the mail from various things I order, I never toss it but I save it for my milling purposes. What used to be a very messy project, turned into a very clean project with minimal clean up.

Lastly, there is this new natural cutting fluid out that you can get a free sample of in the mail that is way better than WD40, Kerosine, motor oil, PB Blaster, or any other fluid that has been used in the past. I'll see if I can't get a picture of the stuff for ya later.

 

[rdb241]

If you join the 5D jig fan group on Facebook, there is a guy on there that'll cerakote for a fair price with virtually any color you want. He does it from his house. He's one of the admins of the group there.

Why send it away? I spray Duracoat right here in Puyallup. From my house. I just finished a MP5 pistol. I have been spraying Duracoat for around 15 years.

 

[jimmeh]

I'd like to add of course, that I no longer own 80% lowers. Lost them ALL in a boating accident. Every single one of them sunk to the bottom of the Puget Sound somewhere that I cannot find.

 

[11Charlie]

Take some flexible styrofoam and stuff it in the open spaces between the jig and the lower. You'll notice that your vacuum will pick up more than 95% of the flakes and slivers from the milling process. Whenever I get that flexible white styrofoam in the mail from various things I order, I never toss it but I save it for my milling purposes. What used to be a very messy project, turned into a very clean project with minimal clean up.

Lastly, there is this new natural cutting fluid out that you can get a free sample of in the mail that is way better than WD40, Kerosine, motor oil, PB Blaster, or any other fluid that has been used in the past. I'll see if I can't get a picture of the stuff for ya later.

Great Idea. I will try that on the next one. I would love to see the cutting oil you are speaking of.

 

[jimmeh]

Metal Cutting Coolant - Coolube Coolant Oil Lubrication Fluids | Unist

 

[Buck13]

Anyone have a used jig they want to sell or rent to me?

I didn't really much want an AR before, but the prospect of I-1639 passing (which I assume it will) makes me want one out of spite. If it's a hated "ghost gun," so much the better!

 

[JD42]

$300 AR 10. With a Warhog poly 80 lower. It was a super budget build. So far 250 rds no problems.

 

[JD42]

And a poly 80 AR47. With 500rds on it. Very easy to do. Would like to try the 5D jig.