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75 year old war memorial stays in Mojave

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Chee-to, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    75 year old war memorial stays in Mojave, for now.......

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    http://www.aolnews.com/article/supreme-court-rules-californias-mojave-cross-can-stay/19457320

    High Court Rules Cross Can Stand in Mojave

    The Supreme Court said Wednesday that a federal court went too far in ordering the removal of a congressionally endorsed war memorial cross from its longtime home in California.

    In ruling the cross could stay, the justices said federal judges in California did not take sufficient notice of the government's decision to transfer the land in a remote area of California to private ownership. The move was designed to eliminate any constitutional concern about a religious symbol on public land.

    The ruling was 5-4, with the court's conservatives in the majority.

    The Veterans of Foreign Wars erected the cross more than 75 years ago atop an outcropping in the Mojave National Preserve.

    It has been covered with plywood for the past several years following the court rulings. Court papers describe the cross as 5 feet to 8 feet tall.

    "Here one Latin cross in the desert evokes far more than religion. It evokes thousands of small crosses in foreign fields marking the graves of Americans who fell in battles, battles whose tragedies are compounded if the fallen are forgotten," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote.

    In dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens agreed that soldiers who died in battle deserve a memorial to their service. But the government "cannot lawfully do so by continued endorsement of a starkly sectarian message," Stevens said.

    Six justices wrote separate opinions and none spoke for a majority of the court. The holding itself was narrow, ordering lower courts to look again at the transfer of land from the government to private control.

    Lower federal courts previously ruled that the cross' location on public land violated the Constitution and that the land transfer was, in effect, an end run around the constitutional problem

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  2. Decker

    Decker My house Active Member

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    Woot.

    -d
     
  3. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    The good news is that the cross can stay.

    The bad news is that it was a 5-4 vote in SCOTUS.
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Happen to have a roll call on that? I'm curious who voted what.
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Kennedy was the swing vote for keeping the cross up. They nay votes were the other usual suspects with Stephens writing the dissenting opinion.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  6. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    I recall that a cross was used to mark graves long before Jesus was crucified. Crosses can have more than one meaning. I want to meet this guy who was "offended" and punch him in is smug face! I see a cross on the side of the road and think somebody died... I never think twice that they must of been Christian. I have not met somebody who thought this way that wasn't a hypocrite. You can't show any form of belief because it offends them but they are usually preaching their beliefs everywhere they go.
     
  7. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Yup, that's what Jesus would do.
     
  8. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    Hooray!!! for Jesus!
     
  9. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Did someone shoot the cross? if not, what's this topic got to do with firearms?
     
  10. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Something to do with WW I vets who died in defense of their country, you got a problem with that ?
     
  11. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well said. :thumbup:
     
  12. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! and the defense of all our constitutional rights! ;)
     
  13. 2zuks

    2zuks Dallas, Oregon Member

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    Yep. I am glad that the cross can stay. Why is there always someone that has to post the what does this have to do with firearms question?

    It was a good move to transfer the land to private ownership to avoid the problems in this case. One thing that worries me though is part of the decision was that public lands could be sold by the government at anytime they saw fit. The part that troubles me is what would keep them from transfering federal lands like the 19 million acres Obama set aside to say China?
     
  14. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It's still not a home run, the ruling is splintered with many differing opinions, but basically The Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit’s and lower court’s ruling that the memorial must be torn down, and says that the lower court must readdress the issue of the land transfer, which would have put the Memorial in the hands of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW).

    The court strongly suggested that the memorial should remain! In the opinion, Justice Anthony Kennedy, says:

    "The goal of avoiding governmental endorsement (of religion) does not require eradication of all religious symbols in the public realm. The Constitution does not oblige government to avoid any public acknowledgment of religion’s role in society.”

    Kennedy also said that the intent of those who erected the Mojave memorial was simply to honor our nation’s fallen soldiers and pointed to our Amicus Brief filed on behalf of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, The American Legion, Military Order of the Purple Heart, and the American Ex-Prisoners of War.

    Sadly, the ACLU has already released a statement saying that they will fight to have the memorial torn down in the lower court.

    The veterans and Liberty Institute will continue to fight to protect it! This box must come off. No war memorial with religious imagery is safe until the Court rules that these memorials, which serve to remember our fallen heroes of the military, are allowed under the Constitution.
     
  15. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Because of at least four recent threads on religion and politics in the last few weeks have been closed by moderators?

     
  16. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Nobody's discussing religion, It's A "War Memorial" , Again, you got a problem with that ?
     
  17. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    The entire reason for the court case is religion! You got a problem with reading?

     
  18. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    The whole reason for the court case was some self righteous prick who doesn't give a damn about those who died for his freedom felt compelled to complain. A cross is the symbol most commonly associated with death and grave markers. Rightfully so, it should be used as a memorial for those that have died abroad. Crosses predate Christianity! They Romans didn't come up with some new way to crucify somebody just for Jesus. War memorials have everything to do with firearms, nobody is saying, "Hooray! A win for religion." We are saying, "Let's not forget those who have died for our freedom!"
     
  19. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    What is the goal of the people who want all our memorials taken down?

    jj
     
  20. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Like the editHAT that originally complained about the WW I War Memorial, you seem to be the only one here that has a problem, take it to the ACLU ....:thumbup: