700x thrown from a Lee Auto-drum

[ageingstudent]

No not kvetching about how poorly it meeters in general, I just got curious about actually quantifying the throws over a 50 round box. Results:



Anybody done some similar tests they want to share? Please do if you have them.

I honestly thought it would do worse from past experiences with this size of charge out of the auto-disc and perfect powder measure. I like the powder for .38 special it seems to be very effecient upon burning, I just always feel like I have to weigh every charge. I know there are lots of powders that throw more consistently, but for 700x I don't think this run is too terrible. Trying to decide whether to grab another pound or two as it's inexpensive and makes nice plinking loads with lead projectiles. Accuracy at 3.5 grains with a 158 grain lead fp is very good out to 50yds with my model 66.

With that spread I still feel like I need to weigh every charge and adjust the outliers. I generally like my loads to stay +/-.1 from the target weight for my revolver loads.

Thoughts?

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[Member 5605]

5-10% variance is within

Adding a tap tap or so at the drum fill position reduces the variance.

 

[Certaindeaf]

How do you throw those? Did you throw them like you load them.. like in your press (and what kind) or do you charge a block/tray of brass and then load those?
If you use, for example, a Lee auto turret press, having that measure change 3-4 stations before each drop is way different than dropping charges into a tray of brass (or onto a scale) one by one.
I use an auto disk on my four holer and I love it. For big rifles and whatnot I use a Lyman #55 and slam that knocker.. especially with stick powder and it works plenty good.

 

[Mygrainman]

Which powder? Stick powders like Varget and bigger grains like Unique give me fits in my lee dumper... but the finer stuff like H335 and CFEBLK/CFE223 are very consistent.

 

[Tilos]

My test for small amounts of powder it to thro 10x into a large case and weigh that.
If the target weight is 3.5 grains I'll thro 10x and set the scale for 35 grains.

I also found/saw a powder "weight" for sale on ebay and made my own.
Testing proved to me that adding the weight produced better consistency.
The official "weight" is aluminum...mine is wood
Fill the hopper, add the weight:

Works for me,

 

[Mygrainman]

My test for small amounts of powder it to thro 10x into a large case and weigh that.
If the target weight is 3.5 grains I'll thro 10x and set the scale for 35 grains.

I also found/saw a powder "weight" for sale on ebay and made my own.
Testing proved to me that adding the weight produced better consistency.
The official "weight" is aluminum...mine is wood
View attachment 383126
Works for me,

That seems like it would be easy enough to fabricate... I just tap the side of the cylinder every few dumps, and it seems to do the trick.

 

[ageingstudent]

How do you throw those? Did you throw them like you load them.. like in your press (and what kind) or do you charge a block/tray of brass and then load those?
If you use, for example, a Lee auto turret press, having that measure change 3-4 stations before each drop is way different than dropping charges into a tray of brass (or onto a scale) one by one.
I use an auto disk on my four holer and I love it. For big rifles and whatnot I use a Lyman #55 and slam that knocker.. especially with stick powder and it works plenty good.

Yes thrown while loading normally on an LCT.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yes thrown while loading normally on an LCT.

With it in auto-advance mode and taking a trip around the stations? Just wondering.

 

[ageingstudent]

Which powder? Stick powders like Varget and bigger grains like Unique give me fits in my lee dumper... but the finer stuff like H335 and CFEBLK/CFE223 are very consistent.

700x it's a large flake pistol/shotgun powder. Most powders meter much better, it's pretty common to have trouble with this powder but it is darn good so it survives on the market. That's probably the best 50 throws I've ever got with it.

 

[ageingstudent]

With it in auto-advance mode and taking a trip around the stations? Just wondering.

Yes. And the reverse rotation auto eject. Baffle in the hopper also.

 

[Mygrainman]

700x it's a large flake pistol/shotgun powder. Most powders meter much better, it's pretty common to have trouble with this powder but it is darn good so it survives on the market. That's probably the best 50 throws I've ever got with it.

Sounds like Unique, also large flake... also meters for bubgum.

 

[ageingstudent]

My test for small amounts of powder it to thro 10x into a large case and weigh that.
If the target weight is 3.5 grains I'll thro 10x and set the scale for 35 grains.

I also found/saw a powder "weight" for sale on ebay and made my own.
Testing proved to me that adding the weight produced better consistency.
The official "weight" is aluminum...mine is wood
Fill the hopper, add the weight:
View attachment 383126
Works for me,

Yes have tried that in the past. The problem with 700x is that the flakes are large, thin, and warpy in the surface. I've had them bridge up in the drop tube before and cause a light charge, followed by a heavy charge lol. That makes me nervous.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Small amounts of some powders aren't recommended for some measures. I think Lee actually gets into that in their manuals etc.
That spread wouldn't bother me though. I've heard good things (power and accuracy wise) about 700x but maybe try Red Dot or Promo? Both readily available flake powders.

 

[ageingstudent]

Small amounts of some powders aren't recommended for some measures. I think Lee actually gets into that in their manuals etc.
That spread wouldn't bother me though. I've heard good things (power and accuracy wise) about 700x but maybe try Red Dot or Promo? Both readily available flake powders.

Yes I actually found some red dot the other day. I used to use it for trap. It's next on the workup list. I'm thinking it will perform similar to 700x. I really liked red dot for those 1oz trap loads.

 

[P7M13]

Yes have tried that in the past. The problem with 700x is that the flakes are large, thin, and wharpy in the surface. I've had them bridge up in the drop tube before and cause a light charge, followed by a heavy charge lol. That makes me nervous.

Titegroup always measured well with the Lee Autodisk perfect powder measure on the Loadmaster.
I ran into the problem of light, inconsistent charges using my Hornady LnL. I cleaned all the powder drop parts using acetone so there was zero oil on any wetted parts, and then started tapping the drop with each advance. (Hate it! Friggin' slow and annoying!). It works now for consistent feeds.
Like @Tilos I measure out 10x and weigh it. I'll do that 5x to make sure. Then will measure out and weigh 5-10 individual loads to make sure they are all within +/- 0.2gr of the load. I'm at the end of my Titegroup, and have ~6 lbs of 231 to use, so I don't think I will need to be as concerned with the flake problem.
With the 500+ 223 I just loaded, I thought of getting one of those pager vibrators at the surplus shop on Cornelius pass to vibrate for a second at every advance. No action taken yet.

 

[ageingstudent]

Interesting also that I counted down that list of charge weights and pulled every 5th load as if I was checking every 5th load like I might do with a powder I trust more:
#Throw) grns.
#5) 3.5
#10) 3.4
#15) 3.4
#20) 3.6
#25) 3.5
#30) 3.4
#35) 3.5
#40) 3.6
#45) 3.5
#50) 3.7
Interesting that checking every 5th charge missed a lot of the outside edges here. The sample doesn't really represent the whole box very well in this case.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

mines about the same variance with an rcbs uniflow except at 4.5gr instead of sub 4gr.... cant do sub 4gr with any powder in it really

 

[Mikej]

I don't have time for all the crap. Measuring 50 throws? I said screw it and sold the remainder of a # of 700X after throwing about 25 with the Uniflow. W231 is the shiznit! Bullseye isn't great to meter either, but I didn't get rid of it, mainly so i could say I use the "Traditional Standard" for .38 special.

 

[ageingstudent]

I don't have time for all the crap. Measuring 50 throws? I said screw it and sold the remainder of a # of 700X after throwing about 25 with the Uniflow. W231 is the shiznit! Bullseye isn't great to meter either, but I didn't get rid of it, mainly so i could say I use the "Traditional Standard" for .38 special.

Well that's an option. I have lots of other powders I could use including HP-38, although I haven't had the greatest luck with HP-38 either. I hate to give up a powder that works well across three different .38 and .357 guns with the same loadings but I might. I might try tapping or some gentle vibration like suggested above. It's close to being usable for me with the auto-drum measure. So close.

 

[Mikej]

I've only been rolling my own since Dec 2011. I'm nowhere near an expert that's for sure. Still learning. What issues did you have with HP38/231? Other than they were REAL scarce for 4-5 years.