6 Dead, Dying, and Soon-To-Be-Obsolete Handgun Cartridges

[Member 52301]

The .45 LC is far from obsolete in the sense that a lot of people like it, own it, shoot it, and you can have the cylinder cut on many revolvers to also shoot .45 ACP.

You can load the .45LC hot, although if you want to do it really hot, you might want to use cut down .454 cases as they are much stronger but also would have a decreased case volume so you would want to work up to a hot load as smaller case volume would mean high pressures.

I have a 460V that will shoot .45LC, .454 and .460. I will send in the cylinder to have it cut for .45 ACP too. If I succeed in getting the .45 LC CA revolver for sale here, I will do the same with it and have a small field revolver in addition to the 460V

One of our MT friends owns a RUGER Blackhawk convertible in 45acp/45Long Colt.

He can't shoot his 45s as much or some other handguns due to his very BAD hands now. But he still carries his RUGER out in the woods plus a rifle.

I do not know if he sold a bunch of his 45acp semi automatic pistols or not.

He shoots a LOT of 22lr too.

He is a big, tall, strong and old Marine - Nam Veteran (Same age as if my late husband would be if he lived. Same time frame in Nam too. Different military branch.) and retired from another job.

To look at him casually, you would not know about his handicapped hands and the PAIN that he lives with daily, but he does what works for HIM.

Cate

 

[Jason999]

Seems like everything I own is considered obsolete or ancient but alive.

They can stop making what I fire but they can't stop what I reload for.

 

[The Heretic]

As long as their are guns in 10mm (which is not as "popular" {not as many guns or ammo} as .40) then there will be .40 ammo and guns - especially with regards to revolvers.

 

[Provincial]

Those of us that "roll our own" don't buy from the LGS or BiMart and I've got plenty of .32 S&W Long, .32 ACP, and .25 ACP along with plenty of brass and bullets. As well as molds and the dies to size and lubricate my cast bullets. For those that think those cartridges are worthless think about catching a few in the face. But then getting shot by anything isn't all that great. I once had a Colt "Baby" that had been used in a murder, all it took was one shot to the pump and the fight was over. I got rid of it only because it was the most inaccurate pistol I ever had, it couldn't hit a paper plate at eight feet. While my Model 21A Beretta will place them all on the plate at 12 feet.

Molds, dies, tweezers, and magnifying lenses...........

 

[belshawelk]

40 will never go away. Haters been hating for many years. Yes it may not be quite "as good" as 9 but lots of people love it, including me.

Blows the toy 9 away.

 

[SPSharpshooter]

Blows the toy 9 away.

Makes bigger holes that's for sure

 

[Longwalkhome]

just opinion but its like 357 magnum. When it got too expensive to buy the gents loaded their own. Once folks load their own the factory ammo doesn't sell well so they raise the price to keep it on the shelf. Higher the ammo goes the fewer shooters who buy the guns and fewer guns made in that caliber.

I noticed folks are getting very particular now about what they like. They choose guns they can get ammo for because they don't want to pay $50 for 20 rounds. Extrapolate out how this all affects the market on guns with odd ammo. You won't buy even if you reload because components have risen in price too much

 

[The Heretic]

Makes bigger holes that's for sure

Bigger by about 0.045" - wow!

 

[washagonian]

40 will never go away. Haters been hating for many years. Yes it may not be quite "as good" as 9 but lots of people love it, including me.

And easy to reload, even with cheap reloading equipment.

 

[belshawelk]

Bigger by about 0.045" - wow!

and over 10% more energy with a much heavier bullet. it aint the hole size that kills , its the energy.

 

[The Heretic]

and over 10% more energy with a much heavier bullet. it aint the hole size that kills , its the energy.

9mm doesn't do bad for energy (115 gr 9mm loads have about the same energy as a 180 gr .40 load), but it is mass and momentum that breaks bones and penetrates dense tissue. Too many people only look at velocity/energy and forget momentum and sectional density.

That is why I prefer 9mm loads in the 115 to 135 gr range, and 180 gr loads in .40 (200 gr for bear). A 180 gr 10mm projectile has about the same sectional density as a 147 gr 9mm projectile (0.167 vs 0.166), but has almost 20% more mass and about 20% momentum. Same energy, a little more felt recoil (my subjective opinion), but more momentum, better sectional density (than the lighter 115-135 gr 9mm loads) and more mass. If you have a side on shot that goes thru the humerus and deltoid/biceps and then has to go thru the ribs, penetration is more of an issue than a front on shot thru the solar plexus.

That is why I like the .40 S&W - it is a good compromise. I just wish SIG/MecGar made a 20 round mag for the P226 in .40 S&W.

 

[Knobgoblin]

It's actually blood loss that kills in most instances.
More holes in more places means more leaks.
Rifle calibers change this dynamic.

 

[titsonritz]

I'd bet one could come up with other cartridges that are more dead or dying than those listed.

 

[The Heretic]

It's actually blood loss that kills in most instances.
More holes in more places means more leaks.
Rifle calibers change this dynamic.

I you can hit the CNS or the heart with a handgun projectile, then stopping a person quickly is more likely and does not necessarily require blood loss. eventual death is a side effect (i.e., not the intention when dealing with attackers - stopping the threat/attack is the intention).

 

[eb in oregon]

I'd bet one could come up with other cartridges that are more dead or dying than those listed.

That list is actually very long. Virtually mostly anything made before the 1930's is long out of print and is a custom load basis. There are some exceptions. Many military cartridges that were used in WWI and there after are still loaded, but then there are a whole bunch of commercial cartridges dead, dead, dead. Really, a cartridge isn't obsolete until the factory's stop making ammunition in that caliber. Then there will be many years of owners "rolling" their own.

 

[eb in oregon]

I you can hit the CNS or the heart with a handgun projectile, then stopping a person quickly is more likely and does not necessarily require blood loss. eventual death is a side effect (i.e., not the intention when dealing with attackers - stopping the threat/attack is the intention).

It's all about odds, and the odds are that most people traumatically injured die from blood loss. There is plenty of facts, figures, and charts of combat deaths in history to back that up. And what has lead to a higher survival rate among combat soldiers wounded in combat? Plasma, blood expander, trained Medics, and helicopters.

 

[The Heretic]

It's all about odds, and the odds are that most people traumatically injured die from blood loss. There is plenty of facts, figures, and charts of combat deaths in history to back that up. And what has lead to a higher survival rate among combat soldiers wounded in combat? Plasma, blood expander, trained Medics, and helicopters.

Die? yes. Stopped? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[The Heretic]

That list is actually very long. Virtually mostly anything made before the 1930's is long out of print and is a custom load basis. There are some exceptions. Many military cartridges that were used in WWI and there after are still loaded, but then there are a whole bunch of commercial cartridges dead, dead, dead. Really, a cartridge isn't obsolete until the factory's stop making ammunition in that caliber. Then there will be many years of owners "rolling" their own.

.45-70

One hundred fifty years old

 

[eb in oregon]

.45-70

One hundred fifty years old

You are taking this way too seriously. And the 45-70 is one of the exceptions.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I'd submit that you can view the self contained, smokeless powder cartridge as a device. And various calibers are merely versions of the same device.
So until the entire concept is dead, what difference does it make?