JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Sad to see this thread go after another member assuming the worst. Try and exercise a bit of grace with other members, continuing going after a member in good standing will get you removed from this thread.

Thanks in advance.
 
My brother went out opening day for elk in Idaho. I went out and scouted the week before and found some good sign and gave him directions on where I thought some nice bulls would be.

He went out with his Christensen Arms Ridgeline in 6.5 PRC and found a nice bull right where I said it would be. It was just over 400 yards away, and he had a good rest and said he put one right in the vitals. Bull went down.

Then bull got up and my brother tried to work the action to get another shot off but the action jammed and the bull wandered into the timber. It was raining hard and he lost the blood trail. Looked all night but couldn't find it. Then he got a call that night that a coworker tested positive for Covid, so he was ordered to quarantine at home for 14 days. His season is over, and a nice bull elk is wasted.

At 400 yards, the 6.5 PRC is still delivering 1800 ft lbs of energy so it should be entirely adequate for elk at that distance. My brother is just sick over the whole thing and now wants to go to the 300 PRC, which has 2700 ft lbs of energy at 400 yards.

I have no idea why the elk went down and then got up and got away. My brother is an amazing marksman and his rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA at 600 yards.

But it was a rainy and stormy day, so the round could have gone anywhere at that range. I'm no fan of shots over 250 yards on animals precisely because of incidents like this.

But it could have been any number of things and because the elk is now wolf food, we'll never know.
For the record, I'm not a fan of long shots like that.
Too many factors I have no control over can effect the shot.
The elk was hit.
That's obvious, but these are big, tough animals.
6.5mm bullet is probably around 120-140 gr. That's a bit wimpy for Elk.
I think he's on the right track, going with a larger caliber, but if it were me, I'd swap that Christensen for a BLR in .358 Winchester and keep the shots within a more reasonable range (not saying he's a bad shot, but the shorter the distance, the less that "outside forces" can prey upon the bullet).
Saddest part is, that Elk likely laid down and died someplace, eventually....not that anyone's ever going to benefit from that fact.

Dean
 
Last Edited:
Played cards with the folks tonight and my dad said a friend of his just got a gigantic 6x7 bull elk the other day. When he skinned it, he found 13 old bullet wounds in it. :s0001:

My brother has spent the last couple of days back in the area where he shot his elk and said still no sign of it and now the area is crawling with hunters.

He again inspected the area where the elk was shot and found evidence that his bullet was deflected by the branch of an elderberry bush. 143 grain bullets do not make good brush busters at 400 yards.
 
For the record, I'm not a fan of long shots like that.
Too many factors I have no control over can effect the shot.
The elk was hit.
That's obvious, but these are big, tough animals.
6.5mm bullet is probably around 120-140 gr. That's a bit wimpy for Elk.
I think he's on the right track, going with a larger caliber, but if it were me, I'd swap that Christensen for a BLR in .358 Winchester and keep the shots within a more reasonable range (not saying he's a bad shot, but the shorter the distance, the less that "outside forces" can prey upon the bullet).
Saddest part is, that Elk likely laid down and died someplace, eventually....not that anyone's ever going to benefit from that fact.

Dean

The weight has little to do with it.

Its the energy, sectional density and bullet comp that matters.

6.5 PRC is more than adequate for elk out to about 500 yards.

Most people overestimate their skill, that's the problem.
 
Imo .30-06 would be the minimum caliber I'd use on elk preferably larger like 300 win mag or even .338, though .45-70 wouldn't be bad either.(within 100-200 yards)
Point being for larger game you need to use a larger caliber.
6.5 I'd wonder about being enough for even a deer, for elk I wouldn't even attempt it. I'd rather use a little more gun than necessary than risk not using enough gun on game. Also this isn't the first time I've heard of 6.5 not downing an elk, I think a more powerful cartridge is required.
 
Considering 6.5PRC has as much or more energy than a 30-06, what do you think?

6.5 means nothing, considering it can range from 6.5Grendel up to 6.5x55 which has killed more moose than any round in history.

6.5 PRC is the round being discussed.

6.5Creedmoor is a necked down .308 that shoots flatter, retains more energy at range and has better first round hit probability.

6.5 PRC is a 6.5Creedmoor on steroids, taking it up past 30-06 energy. Sling a 150 grain at 3200+ and shoots flat as a laser.

Modern designed rounds with short powder stacks are much more efficient than legacy rounds. Its why the 6.5CM is superior to the .264 win mag despite the win mag using 20% more powder. The PRC smokes both of them.

1603093529646.png
 
Here is the problem with the initial issues. Factory ammo for 6.5 PRC or whatever flavor of the week 6.5 cartridge is, is all built/marketed for people with very little Actual long range shooting experience. I still load/ shoot .260 Rem from many years back before the "Creedmoor Craze" and I would never think about loading good hunting bullets my custom FN SPR for a comp, nor would I load a VLD type target bullet for my hunting. I load mostly Nosler and they have done OK with blending compared to most so I have somewhat settled on Accubond LR. BUT that being said, Core-lokt, partition, scirrocco 2, accubond, or Norma Oryx are more the type of bullets I'd trust. Need expansion AND energy.
 
Oh Puh-lease! Let's not turn this thread into another 6.5 CM being the greatest cartridge of all time.

First of all, I have one. It was NOT derived from a .308. It was derived from the 30 TC (another Hornady cartridge), who's parent cartridge was the 300 Savage.

Second, I'll never understand how intelligent people can believe a chart showing how the 6.5 CM defies the laws of physics. Gravity effects mass in a vertical plane. Two projectiles of equal mass, one traveling faster than the other, (264 is faster than the CM), both launched at the same time and trajectory; the slower projectile will hit the ground first.

I don't have a 6.5 PRC yet, but I will soon. I'll use it for it's intended purpose; ringing steel from a loonng ways out.
 
I'll never understand how intelligent people can believe a chart showing how the 6.5 CM defies the laws of physics. Gravity effects mass in a vertical plane. Two projectiles of equal mass, one traveling faster than the other, (264 is faster than the CM), both launched at the same time and trajectory; the slower projectile will hit the ground first.

Incorrect. The chart does not show either bullet hitting the ground first. It shows the amount of drop at any given ***horizontal*** distance, not time.

Any two bullets of any mass will hit the ground at the same time. The faster round will hit the ground farther away. Air resistance during a five foot drop is insignificant. Air resistance during 500 yards of travel can be.

The ***vertical*** acceleration is the same for a 40 grain .22 LR round as it is for a Ram 1500 pickup truck, 32 ft per second squared. How fast or far they travel sideways has nothing to do with it.
 
Last Edited:
The weight has little to do with it.
If you said that to an 1875 buffalo hunter he would laugh in your face.
On paper a 500>550 gr. .45-70 at ~1,400fps looks pretty miserable in its energy figures.
But that slug would often go right thru a 1,200lb Bison, breaking everything along the way, sending bone fragments like shrapnel thru all the soft tissue, and leaving big holes on both sides for the blood to run out.
And they were not shooting at close ranges either.
 
People don't think external ballistics be like they be, but they do.

6.5 CM/ .260rem / 6.4x47L are all essentially a a necked down .308. Very similar powder charges all in a short action case of similar size. 6.5CM has practically killed both of the other cartridges due to cheap factory match ammo and availability.

6.5PRC was basically a spinoff of the 6.5SAUM /4SGAP round. A Very successfully custom loading designed and used to hunt large game by some of the best competitive shooters in the world. I think they may know a bit more about this game than you do. It is literly, a hunting round designed for LONG RANGE SHOOTING advocates, hence its creation. It took a custom wildcat round that was around $5 per round and brought it down to the $1.5/rnd range.

Furthermore bullet technology has made drastic leaps in the last 20 years.

Lastly, if you actually read the chart you will see how different projectiles effect ballistic performance. There aren't many high BC hunting rounds in a .264winmag off the shelf. There are ALOT for 6.5CM.

6.5CM is the round that made long range shooting more accessible for alot of people. It Changed EVERYTHING and dispite the .260/6.5L already being out there, it stole their thunder. Its a fantastic round that launched a ton of even more successful 6mm rounds for PRS and NRL type shooting. All of that then pours over into the hunting realm becuase at the end of the day, ballistics is what matters.
 
Last Edited:
If you said that to an 1875 buffalo hunter he would laugh in your face.
On paper a 500>550 gr. .45-70 at ~1,400fps looks pretty miserable in its energy figures.
But that slug would often go right thru a 1,200lb Bison, breaking everything along the way, sending bone fragments like shrapnel thru all the soft tissue, and leaving big holes on both sides for the blood to run out.
And they were not shooting at close ranges either.
1875 Bullet tech vs 2020 Bullet tech.

How many shots buffalo do you think were missed, for everyone that was clean killed? These nostalgic stories of times past always fail to mention context, or reality. You could practically walk up to these animals and harvest them.

No one was shooting what we consider to be long range with a 45/70. The ballistics coupled with firearm quality/accuracy of the time does not lie. 45/70 BLEEDS off energy and drops like a rock at range so fast its not even funny. Velocity, Sectional Density, Bullet comp THEN bullet weight are what kills animals.

A.308 has equal to or more energy than most 45/70 ladings, combined with higher velocity, better sectional density, better bullet choices.

.450 bushmaster is a modern day 45/70 except it can be had in a large frame AR with MUCH better performing projectiles. Go take some 300 yard plus shots on a game with a .450 and let me know how that works. It hits with less muzzle energy than a .223 rem at 300 yards while dropping over 2 feet.

1603120711816.png
 
Last Edited:
No one was shooting what we consider to be long range with a 45/70. The ballistics coupled with firearm quality/accuracy of the time does not lie.
O woe unto ye who put all their faith in ballistics charts.
Are they factual and accurate, yes, but they don't tell the whole story,, they don't tell the massive difference between getting hit with a baseball or getting hit with a bowling ball.
Tens of thousands of Buffs were shot in the 200>300 yard range,, now today we might not think of that as long range, but very few hunters today have any business shooting at large game at much over that.
You might go back and read the Army's test results on the accuracy and penetration tests of the .45-70/500 load at 1,000 yards.
No, not MOA, but Minute of Enemy Soldier was obtained, and a person was not safe behind 3 inches of solid wood at that range.
We all know that Billy Dixon shot at an Indian at a range of ~1 mile,, the 600 gr. bullet from the .50-90 Sharps actually hit the horse just below the withers and it went down..
Brian Pierce has killed Cape Buffalo with his .45-70 Marlin,, a 385>410 gr. hard-cast, going ~1,700, (can you say heavy recoil,) in one instance, killing TWO with one shot, the bullet went totally thru the first bull, and still had the MOMENTUM to go half-way thru another buff in the brush behind the first one and neither one of those buffs ran-off anywhere,, dead in their tracks.
And you know what,, their isn't a .308/.30-06, on Gods Green Earth that would do that, no matter what "modern" bullet was used.
 
Imo .30-06 would be the minimum caliber I'd use on elk preferably larger like 300 win mag or even .338, though .45-70 wouldn't be bad either.(within 100-200 yards)
Point being for larger game you need to use a larger caliber.
6.5 I'd wonder about being enough for even a deer, for elk I wouldn't even attempt it. I'd rather use a little more gun than necessary than risk not using enough gun on game. Also this isn't the first time I've heard of 6.5 not downing an elk, I think a more powerful cartridge is required.

30-06 and 300 Win Mag are the same caliber. Bullets kill, not headstamps.
 
He doesnt need a bigger caliber he needs to learn to shoot the one he has. A poor shot with a bigger caliber isnt going to be any different.
I don't think he necessarily made a bad shot. A poor bullet design for the job more likely. I've seen humans take a shot to the vitals with an 5.56 FMJ and get up and run to cover before bleeding out. A match bullet is just not going to give you the wound channel you need.
 
I'll admit, I'm no fan of smaller calibers/cartridges either. I'm really not a fan of using small caliber target bullets on big game.
The Swedes used to shoot moose with a 6.5x55. BUT they were using 153ish gr round noses with tremendous wound channel capabilities. I'd shoot an elk with my .260 if it had a Nosler Partition or Accubond in front of it.
 
The ballistic tip line has gone through a lot of changes. The .308 180gr Ballistic Tip is actually a pretty tough bullet.
The accubonds have similar bc as the ballistic tips and have shown to be as accurate in my limited testing, so I automatically would gravitate towards the tougher bonded bullet when it comes to elk. I have seen a bull elk killed quite handily with a 165 Sst from a 30-06 but shot placement was perfect and range was moderate.
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top