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Defending 5 acres means sh*t has gotten too close and you are in a serious firefight. I have a 5 acre place, and for ultimate security you need to control about 200 to 300 acres around you. This will take multiple patrols, with backing sniper type positions, control of water supply and control of fields of fire. Defending 5 acres is going to be very intense, time consuming and will require at least 3 people suitably armed and trained at all times.

There's truth to what you have said. However, lets call it 400 acres- thats well over a million dollars out of my price range. There's "ideal" and then there's "Well s**t hun, we're gonna have to compromise..."
 
There's truth to what you have said. However, lets call it 400 acres- thats well over a million dollars out of my price range. There's "ideal" and then there's "Well s**t hun, we're gonna have to compromise..."

You do not have to own it, just control it. This is where that local milita thing comes into play. A group effort by multiple property owners or stakeholders, to control a suitable amount of ground to insure the security of all. Much easier to do if they are like minded, reasonably outfitted and committed to the security of all with the efforts and resources of all.
 
Trailtrader,
I'm not too worried over anything bigger than 50 cal- since where I'm moving is quasi-mountainous region and the nearest large city (80,000 people) is 200 miles to the north and the land will be "out of the way" I'm not too worried.
if you and your militia have to defend against an illegally equipped Federal Army/"rogue Military Unit" or Mercenaries from South of the Border (think Cartels)..... you want to be able to defend against the likes of 20mm-25mm cannon equipped Helicopters....most likely the 23mm cannons on the Mexican MIL-8s and 17s, or 20mm cannons on the UH-1s, UH-60s, and MD500s which could also be equipped with TOWs or HOT missiles.

EDIT: or the 25mm on the AH-64 Apaches and the Bradley Cavalry vehicles, along with an assortment of rockets.....
 
Trailtrader,
if you and your militia have to defend against an illegally equipped Federal Army/"rogue Military Unit" or Mercenaries from South of the Border (think Cartels)..... you want to be able to defend against the likes of 20mm-25mm cannon equipped Helicopters....most likely the 23mm cannons on the Mexican MIL-8s and 17s, or 20mm cannons on the UH-1s, UH-60s, and MD500s which could also be equipped with TOWs or HOT missiles.

EDIT: or the 25mm on the AH-64 Apaches and the Bradley Cavalry vehicles, along with an assortment of rockets.....

Not worried about hard core military hardware- I'd rather suicide than be sent to Gitmo. Besides my heart and diabetes? No I wouldn't last very long under "intensive interrogation".

But it occurred to me the old adage that "one mans weed is another mans crop" and then I wondered "What would happen if I planted some kind of tall, thorny bush around the perimeter? Something thick, with big long thorns that would keep "Joe Average marauder" out- or if they used machetes you could hear them chopping in? Found out there's now a "wild native rose" that's been banned in 12 states because of its invasive nature- you're encouraged to do everything short of using nuke weapons on it. Well its got these thorns thats pretty impressive and the density of the bushes? Probably not happening- figure a mix of barbed wire and thorn bushes should keep out only the most desperate- and if they're that desperate they'll be exhausted by the time they make it in because then they'll be right in the middle of the non-existant mine field,,,,,

As a locksmith there's no such thing as "100% keep bad guys out proof" locks. I can buy you time to grab a firearm. If you have the money I can get you an extra 5 minutes of life- but if someone wants in bad enough AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS- they'll get in.

Take the typical front house door- put some really nice locks on it. Some jerk takes a battery powered sawsall and cuts the door using a metal blade- you can hear the cutting.

If the police had something to think with other than their gonads, they'd weld an 18" piece of water pipe with a steel plate on one end, and a bottle jack on the other- place it sideways just above the locks and apply pressure. If you do it right you might hear the building creak a bit and the door will just be pushed open gently, and 99% quiet. No battering ram, no bullets, nothing- the doors just now open.

Same thing with safes. Phone call from the Kitsap County Sheriff's department- they needed a safe open that a drug seller had. The drug seller was bragging "YOU'LL NEVER GET THAT SAFE OPEN!" Well it had an electronic lock,,,,Imagine the look on his face when we called the factory for the safe and vault technician/factory over ride code Took all of 15 minutes.
 
But it occurred to me the old adage that "one mans weed is another mans crop" and then I wondered "What would happen if I planted some kind of tall, thorny bush around the perimeter? Something thick, with big long thorns that would keep "Joe Average marauder" out- or if they used machetes you could hear them chopping in? Found out there's now a "wild native rose" that's been banned in 12 states because of its invasive nature- you're encouraged to do everything short of using nuke weapons on it. Well its got these thorns thats pretty impressive and the density of the bushes? Probably not happening- figure a mix of barbed wire and thorn bushes should keep out only the most desperate- and if they're that desperate they'll be exhausted by the time they make it in because then they'll be right in the middle of the non-existant mine field,,,,,

aerial assault directly on top of your homestead/common areas. (another reason for the DECOY tho)

OR use flames to get the thorny bushes taken care of.....or an electric mini-dozer; I think there's such a version of a Bobcat. (quiet except for the squeaking of the wheels and tracks and the damage of the bushes.)


Joe Average Marauders can be pretty dangerous when organized in groups...look to the 1992 Mogadishu event; relatively poorly armed and dnagerous people made great use of tire fires, blockades, and so on......
and no I have not been reading your mind, I have spent a great deal of time thinking on things like this....and looking at the trends in the 3rd world countries for compounds and such in war torn countries. We know a lot of the pot grow operations in some areas of Oregon are backed by Cartel groups.....therefore it is quite likely that we may face relatively well equipped gangs set to control areas and establish drug empires (if not already established), and become more overt rather than covert in their operations, should the United States finally go into chaos at the collapse of the economies and ponzi schemes.
 
aerial assault directly on top of your homestead/common areas. (another reason for the DECOY tho)

OR use flames to get the thorny bushes taken care of.....or an electric mini-dozer; I think there's such a version of a Bobcat. (quiet except for the squeaking of the wheels and tracks and the damage of the bushes.)


Joe Average Marauders can be pretty dangerous when organized in groups...look to the 1992 Mogadishu event; relatively poorly armed and dnagerous people made great use of tire fires, blockades, and so on......
and no I have not been reading your mind, I have spent a great deal of time thinking on things like this....and looking at the trends in the 3rd world countries for compounds and such in war torn countries. We know a lot of the pot grow operations in some areas of Oregon are backed by Cartel groups.....therefore it is quite likely that we may face relatively well equipped gangs set to control areas and establish drug empires (if not already established), and become more overt rather than covert in their operations, should the United States finally go into chaos at the collapse of the economies and ponzi schemes.

Well, I'm pretty sure that anyone with a lick of sense can see the economic collapse thats going to happen. I hope you enjoy reading that book (Failureofcivility.com) because it addresses this problem and how to defend it.

Nifty ideas like putting broken glass on inside window sills so when intruders come in they'll hopefully leave DNA trace behind in the form of blood. Lightly greasing unused stairwells in high rise buildings- and then to add insult to injury lightly glue marbles on the steps so if someone's trying to run in a hurry they can't. There's all sorts of "creative ideas" you may enjoy.
 
Not worried about hard core military hardware- I'd rather suicide than be sent to Gitmo. Besides my heart and diabetes? No I wouldn't last very long under "intensive interrogation".

But it occurred to me the old adage that "one mans weed is another mans crop" and then I wondered "What would happen if I planted some kind of tall, thorny bush around the perimeter? Something thick, with big long thorns that would keep "Joe Average marauder" out- or if they used machetes you could hear them chopping in? Found out there's now a "wild native rose" that's been banned in 12 states because of its invasive nature- you're encouraged to do everything short of using nuke weapons on it. Well its got these thorns thats pretty impressive and the density of the bushes? Probably not happening- figure a mix of barbed wire and thorn bushes should keep out only the most desperate- and if they're that desperate they'll be exhausted by the time they make it in because then they'll be right in the middle of the non-existant mine field,,,,,

As a locksmith there's no such thing as "100% keep bad guys out proof" locks. I can buy you time to grab a firearm. If you have the money I can get you an extra 5 minutes of life- but if someone wants in bad enough AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS- they'll get in.

Take the typical front house door- put some really nice locks on it. Some jerk takes a battery powered sawsall and cuts the door using a metal blade- you can hear the cutting.

If the police had something to think with other than their gonads, they'd weld an 18" piece of water pipe with a steel plate on one end, and a bottle jack on the other- place it sideways just above the locks and apply pressure. If you do it right you might hear the building creak a bit and the door will just be pushed open gently, and 99% quiet. No battering ram, no bullets, nothing- the doors just now open.

Same thing with safes. Phone call from the Kitsap County Sheriff's department- they needed a safe open that a drug seller had. The drug seller was bragging "YOU'LL NEVER GET THAT SAFE OPEN!" Well it had an electronic lock,,,,Imagine the look on his face when we called the factory for the safe and vault technician/factory over ride code Took all of 15 minutes.

First thing I did at our urban home was plant flame thorn bushes in front of the basement windows. A bonus is the birds like the berries and they are a fresh winter food source for them
 
First thing I did at our urban home was plant flame thorn bushes in front of the basement windows. A bonus is the birds like the berries and they are a fresh winter food source for them

Cool. However, my knowledge of botany could be equaled by a slice of cheese in the refrigerator. I know NOTHING about it except from what I've read online. I've never cut grass- my Mom and Dads house was a dock over Puget Sound. I've either lived in an apartment or I have lived on a farm- and on a farm, the animals eat the grass. But its nice to know this can be done successfully.
 
look at the old farms, the house was small, the barn huge to store animal food.
animal food requires lots of sun and fertile soil....

Yep- rule of thumb is 5 acres for every horse or bovine. 16 square feet for every chicken (thats why they're so popular in urban areas) and goats needs at least 30 square feet ( <broken link removed> ) We'll have to wait and see whats on the market in 6 months :( but I'm planning ahead now.
 
Drainage, southern exposure, water in mid summer, lower elevation means less snow, building site

That is traditional thinking- but not this winter apparently! Drainage is good. Southern Exposure is good (Remember, wife and I are moving to Mena, AR in 6 to 12 months is the plan), You're darn right we're going to have water- fortunately it rains enough I can put in my own pond. Lower elevation may mean less snow? But people don't like to go up mountains either- especially if they've escaped the big cities and are out of food and out of shape. So its a trade off. Building site is problematic- the VA is going to be funding this so I'm limited on what I can do.
 
Yep- rule of thumb is 5 acres for every horse or bovine. 16 square feet for every chicken (thats why they're so popular in urban areas) and goats needs at least 30 square feet ( <broken link removed> ) We'll have to wait and see whats on the market in 6 months :( but I'm planning ahead now.

In what region? western Oregon and eastern Oregon for example are extremely different for ratios.
 
My dad is a bit of a prepper. He has 10 acres in southwest Washington state. It only has one main road going to it with three bridges and its in a valley. If you know the area and have a atv or real jeep there are bug out routes you can take. The bridges can all be taken out very easily. Most of the people that live in the valley are prepper minded kinds of people. About half live up there full time. Some are experts on living on the land. My dad is the weapons, traps and explosives expert 30years army LRRP team 3 tours Vietnam. The valley can be easily defended by land by taking the bridges out and it is almost impossible come from the mountains on each side. Also the tops of the valley are above the tree line so it is easy to monitor for intruders. The people up there are supplied for years and most of them are off the grid 100%. Wind and water power gens. Ways to make fuel. And areas to farm. There is also a Doctor that owns a cabin up there. Currently if the SHTF there can be about 10 ex-military men up there including up to 30 other people that know how to handle a weapon. My dads place is the second to the last home on the road around a bend. It is the Castle point. the sides of the valley are setup to be trapped quikly, there are also forward view points on each side (sniper points) and because its on a bend the main route is a great kill box. So that is where I would go if I can make the 230miles trip to safety if the SHTF!
 
Hard to defend against the apc that rolls in. Just be nice and give them eggs and bread, im sure they will just move on..:s0131:

Exactly- an APC is simply an upgraded version of Bonnie and Clydes favorite car- Fords with V8 engines. Not saying it's impossible to stop an APC- it CAN be done- but is it worth it? Passive ways to stop them would be anti-tank ditch's to capture ONE tire if its the big Russian type. If its tracked it'll never make it- no food, no money, and most importantly, no fuel where we intend to live- and APC's are extreme fuel hogs.

This is why I'm really not too worried about tanks, either. Their fuel consumption is far worse.

No, the vehicles to look for is an old M35 truck- a 6 by 6- and make plans to take out that front axle. If you can't steer then you're a sitting duck for small arms fire.
 
Actually to move heavy armor from one place to the next they will use rail, and lowboy heavy haul trailers. Just convoy the heavies anywhere and unload and fuel from there. Kinda like in the book Patriots..

For the folks really dug into the woods they will use drones, and mortors...

Lets hope it never comes to this.

Get one APC stuck thats sure to bring more to help..
 

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