5.7x28 vs. 9mm vs. .357 SIG

[The Heretic]

I cant imagine any, since penetration is based on impact velocity and 2000fps is approaching rifle velocity. And then last but not least, Paul Harrel has several excellent videos comparing all the usual standard self defense ammo calibers in his infamous "meat target" with devastating effects and full penetration.

He did it with the Liberty ammo and it did go all the way thru the "meat target".

The Liberty projectile is designed to immediately fragment "petals" that are in front of the core - these spread out at an angle for about 5-6" at about a 45* angle, then leave a round disk core that penetrates 10-12".

In ballistic gel.

 

[Koda]

He did it with the Liberty ammo and it did go all the way thru the "meat target".

The Liberty projectile is designed to immediately fragment "petals" that are in front of the core - these spread out at an angle for about 5-6" at about a 45* angle, then leave a round disk core that penetrates 10-12".

In ballistic gel.

As I suspected.
Its basically applying hunting bullet technology to handgun ammo. The controlled fragmentation mimics the Nosler Partition technology but in a monolithic projectile.

Im still skeptical it will make a difference in self defense applications, but we do know using "more deadly" ammo is generally a liability in court. I wonder how these Liberty rounds will be perceived....

 

[The Heretic]

Another test shows it penetrates IIIA armor

 

[Certaindeaf]

As I suspected.
Its basically applying hunting bullet technology to handgun ammo. The controlled fragmentation mimics the Nosler Partition technology but in a monolithic projectile.

Im still skeptical it will make a difference in self defense applications, but we do know using "more deadly" ammo is generally a liability in court. I wonder how these Liberty rounds will be perceived....

This is why I dip my ammo in Bactine.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[titsonritz]

Usually, high penetration rounds are heavy. They penetrate because they start at a decent penetration velocity and have the inertia to remain close to that velocity.

Light rounds at high speeds can change velocity rapidly because they have low inertia. Also being light they sometimes lack the structural integrity of a heavy, dense bullet. So when they go through targets of changing density they parachute, change direction or are torn apart by the rapid change in velocity.

Similar to why an arrow will go through a vest that would stop a bullet.

While general true, bullet construction plays a larger part when is comes to performance, both in penetration and expansion.
These light bullets will penetrate like crazy due to how they are built...
https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-90gr-xtreme-defender-solid-monolithic-self-defense-ammo-815-1/

 

[RX-79G]

Removed.

 

[Koda]

Yeah, it just becomes a question if a bullet with no hollow reliably creates a wide wound channel or not. But solid copper Barnes rounds also were built for penetration.

Paul Harrels got a couple good videos where he compares 45acp and 10mm FMJ bullets on his infamous "meat target"... with, destructive results. I would not dismiss the devastating effects of non expanding bullets its just for pistols we only use hollowpoints to reduce over-penetration risk in urban environments.

 

[The Heretic]

I am pretty much committed to the 5.7 as a first layer of SHTF defense when not expecting to be attacked but wanting to have enough firepower in a lightweight compact format, with light recoil, in order to be sure to be armed and be able to retreat to cover and heavier firepower.

But if someone wanted something similar without committing to a relatively niche obscure and expensive set of firearms, they could maybe go with ultra lightweight ammo for 9mm, .357 SIG or .40/.45 in a Glock or SIG 320 or something like that. Ditto with compact conceal carry like a SIG 365

 

[The Heretic]

Paul Harrels got a couple good videos where he compares 45acp and 10mm FMJ bullets on his infamous "meat target"... with, destructive results. I would not dismiss the devastating effects of non expanding bullets its just for pistols we only use hollowpoints to reduce over-penetration risk in urban environments.

Yes - he tested the "extreme penetrator" projectiles too - his conclusion was less penetration than FMJ, but more lethal than FMJ while less lethal than std JHP ammo. Kind of niche ammo.

 

[titsonritz]

Yeah, it just becomes a question if a bullet with no hollow reliably creates a wide wound channel or not. But solid copper Barnes rounds also were built for penetration.

...and copper being light weight compared to lead, kind of my point how the bullet is built trumps weight.

 

[Koda]

Yes - he tested the "extreme penetrator" projectiles too - his conclusion was less penetration than FMJ, but more lethal than FMJ while less lethal than std JHP ammo. Kind of niche ammo.

After I saw the destruction to his meat targets with standard FMJ I stopped worrying about buying heavy, hardcast, "+P", ... IOW, expensive ammo for my bear/"woods" gun. Also plain ol FMJ is what semis are designed to run reliably if someone has a picky gun.

 

[RX-79G]

Removed.

 

[The Heretic]

What would make those wide bullets "similar"?

Lightweight, high velocity, low recoil

 

[The Heretic]

After I saw the destruction to his meat targets with standard FMJ I stopped worrying about buying heavy, hardcast, "+P", ... IOW, expensive ammo for my bear/"woods" gun. Also plain ol FMJ is what semis are designed to run reliably if someone has a picky gun.

FMJs can and sometimes do deform more than hard cast or hard core with heavy jackets.

 

[The Heretic]

...and copper being light weight compared to lead, kind of my point how the bullet is built trumps weight.

Placement trumps all, but various factors can work together or oppose each other

 

[titsonritz]

Placement trumps all, but various factors can work together or oppose each other

My post is regarding a bullet's ability to penetrate, nothing more.

 

[titsonritz]

Small Caliber PDW's: FN 5.7 mm/HK 4.6 mm

 

[RX-79G]

Removed.

 

[Camelfilter]

I don't know if there is anything gained from this with 9mm. Especially out of carbine. And you have to have a reasonable amount of recoil or your recoil operated firearm is not going to be reliable.

The context of this thread is about lightweight high velocity ammunition, in a handgun.