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Stumbled across some interesting ammo online that got me to thinking about 5.7x28 in handguns.

We all know the primary claimed advantage of 5.7x28 is its velocity - approaches, sometimes exceeds 2K fps from a pistol. And it isn't magic, it just shoots light small projectiles.

Well, what if you had 9x19 or .357 SIG defensive HP ammo that had even more velocity and more projectile mass (than the 5.7x28) and you could use it in a Glock 19/17, or a SIG 229/226, or some other standard 9x19 or .357 SIG pistol??

And because of the velocity, it shot flatter than standard 9mm ammo (another of the claimed advantages of 5.7x28)

https://libertyammo.com/product/civil-defense-9mm/ - 2KFPS and independent tests (even by Paul Harrell -
) show that it not only meets that velocity, but often exceeds it.

The .357 SIG 50 gr ammo claimed velocity is 2300 fps.

So there you are, if you think the 5.7x28 is something special, then so is this 9x19 & .357 SIG ammo, plus the latter has the advantage of a much wider selection of guns that shoot it, and if the Liberty ammo isn't available, you can fall back to much more available conventional ammo.

Please bear in mind, I am not poo pooing the 5.7x28; I have three Five Sevens and three PS90s as the first line of defense for my family if SHTF. I am just saying that if ultra light/fast projectiles in handguns are good, or they fill some niche for you, then you don't necessarily have to go to the 5.7x28. However, the Liberty ammo is about twice as expensive as 5.7x28 ammo.
 
Norma is promoting its NXD non-expanding 9mm fluted bullet ammo. An injection-molded copper/polymer composite.

 
I wonder how much penetration (hard and soft target) you would loose with the larger diameter bullets. I've seen criticism of the 5.7 being an 'ice pick' but that was one of it's design parameters so :s0092:
 
Norma is promoting its NXD non-expanding 9mm fluted bullet ammo. An injection-molded copper/polymer composite.

Similar to ARX ammunition Ruger had marketed a while back. Forget who the actual manufacturer was.

The neat thing about the ammunition posted above by @The Heretic is it seems mostly frange-able, which apears to give a higher energy dump on Paul Herrals meat target.
 
I always liked the .357 sig in theory because the bottleneck cartridge should feed better than a straight wall ( or even slightly tapered) case.
Unfortunately, that round never really caught on.
Maybe it'll come around eventually
OK, an even more esoteric round: The 9MM Action Express. .41 AE necked down to 9. Fits a 9mm slide. Lotsa case capacity, but 0% chance of being seen alive.

No word on bullet weight on Norma 10MM NXD, but should be rather fast.
Screen Shot 2022-08-18 at 8.33.31 PM.png
 
A 50gr 9mm hollowpoint is likely to hardly penetrate.
Take a look at the gel tests - it penetrates, just not as well as say 115 gr

I love how some people make a claim without exploring the evidence. :rolleyes:

I think the projectile is designed to not over penetrate.

Although as one person pointed out (maybe it was Paul?), innocent bystanders who get shot unintentionally are usually shot by missed shots, not a shot that over-penetrates the target.
 
Take a look at the gel tests - it penetrates, just not as well as say 115 gr

I love how some people make a claim without exploring the evidence. :rolleyes:

I think the projectile is designed to not over penetrate.

Although as one person pointed out (maybe it was Paul?), innocent bystanders who get shot unintentionally are usually shot by missed shots, not a shot that over-penetrates the target.
Yah TNToutdoors has a decent gel test video, likely others as well.

It'd be interesting to see if similar projectiles would become available for reloaders, to be able to make practice ammunition which shoot similarly at reasonable cost...
 
I wonder how much penetration (hard and soft target) you would loose with the larger diameter bullets. I've seen criticism of the 5.7 being an 'ice pick' but that was one of it's design parameters so :s0092:
I cant imagine any, since penetration is based on impact velocity and 2000fps is approaching rifle velocity. And then last but not least, Paul Harrel has several excellent videos comparing all the usual standard self defense ammo calibers in his infamous "meat target" with devastating effects and full penetration.
 
I cant imagine any, since penetration is based on impact velocity and 2000fps is approaching rifle velocity. And then last but not least, Paul Harrel has several excellent videos comparing all the usual standard self defense ammo calibers in his infamous "meat target" with devastating effects and full penetration.
#TodayiLearned :)

 
#TodayiLearned :)

I used to think Sectional Density had to do with penetration but I only refer to impact velocity now. I admit I do over generalize things, but assuming all other things are equal the same bullet driven faster will penetrate deeper. Now the question is if a lighter bullet will penetrate less with more velocity than a heavier bullet of the same caliber ? I dunno, Im just saying I dont see why it wouldnt with greater velocity.
 
Hasn't this sort of thing been tried many times before?
Yes, lightening the bullet for more velocity is old news been done many times. IIRC it goes back to the original Glaser rounds. I dont think for self defense use it makes any improvement and they are mostly gimmiks for self defense ranges, if anyone gets shot with anything their having a very bad day. Its not like the 9mm has a bad reputation for "stopping power"
 
Yes, lightening the bullet for more velocity is old news been done many times. IIRC it goes back to the original Glaser rounds. I dont think for self defense use it makes any improvement and they are mostly gimmiks for self defense ranges, if anyone gets shot with anything their having a very bad day. Its not like the 9mm has a bad reputation for "stopping power"
Maybe your thinking of Super Vel Ammo? Glaser was the one with birdshot in it and almost zero pentation

 
Maybe your thinking of Super Vel Ammo? Glaser was the one with birdshot in it and almost zero pentation

No, my memory and handgun experience only goes back as far as Glaser. I might have just aged myself here... I'll leave that alone :p
But the idea sounds the same and shows that lightening the bullet for more velocity isnt new. It can be effective for rifles, but I dont think it matters for pistol self defense applications they are marketed for.
 

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