5.56 vs 7.62x39 my experience

[The Heretic]

I kid about the wife . I'm better off with this one then without for a whole mess of reasons.

And believe me, if you spent 30 minutes with my ex you would understand why I am so so so much better off without her. But that is off topic.

 

[The Heretic]

I hear you. bring in the drones.. oops

Better yet:

Personally, I prefer to hunt on the ground, but I can see why that would be popular.

I know some of my friends would be aghast at this, but I don't think they understand just how much of a pest feral pigs are. Unfortunately I don't think they would get over their emotional reactions to seeing animals killed like that and people having fun doing it.

The people I really have a problem with are the bubblegums who purposely let pigs loose into the wild so they will have something to hunt.

 

[usagi]

Was just wondering and hadn't seen it yet...

Does .223/5.56 come in hollow points? I know it's easy to find 7.62 on them but wasn't sure if .223 was the same way.

only just about every match ammo ever made.

federal 223 gold medal match, black hills 223 match. all hollowpoints.

 

[Joe13]

Yup, I'm a .223 noob =)

 

[3MTA3]

only just about every match ammo ever made.

federal 223 gold medal match, black hills 223 match. all hollowpoints.

If you load, this is a good choice for defense. It won't make everything blow up in a great big mushroom cloud before ripping a hole in the space time continuum like 7.62 x 39 will, but at least it won't bounce off a piece of paper like the rest of 5.56 will:

http://www.nosler.com/bonded-solid-base/

 

[The Heretic]

If you load, this is a good choice for defense. It won't make everything blow up in a great big mushroom cloud before ripping a hole in the space time continuum like 7.62 x 39 will, but at least it won't bounce off a piece of paper like the rest of 5.56 will:
View attachment 93557
http://www.nosler.com/bonded-solid-base/

I prefer any of the "plastic tip" type projectiles for general self-defense or hunting ammo used in a semi-auto rifle. They are available as ammo from a number of different manufacturers.

I only use FMJ (or cheap HP ammo from Russia/China) for practice or to have a stockpile of last resort ammo should SHTF.

When hunting and I need penetration and mass retention (elk, dangerous game, hogs), there are a number of "bonded" or X-bullet type projectiles to choose from, but since most of these are premium bullets that cost a premium price, I would only use them for hunting.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The thing about HP's is that they aren't all equal by a long shot.. it depends on what you want it to do.
Traditionally, most HP's (and a whole bunch these days) were for target use and they generally would perform on game about like a FMJ. This is not to say that there aren't varmint and or controlled expansion HP's.. there are, but you need to know what you're getting and want to do.

 

[The Heretic]

The thing about HP's is that they aren't all equal by a long shot.. it depends on what you want it to do.
Traditionally, most HP's (and a whole bunch these days) were for target use and they generally would perform on game about like a FMJ. This is not to say that there aren't varmint and or controlled expansion HP's.. there are, but you need to know what you're getting and want to do.

Exactly

People buy a case of Chinese or Russian HP ammo for an AR or AK and think they now have the self-defense or hunting ammo they need if the SHTF.

They probably don't even go out and test it much less research it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For reals.. what you said in #46 is spot on. And for .223, for me, the 55gr ball is fine for defense and coyotes to 300 yards.. very "maceratory" and won't over penetrate especially up close.. it tumbles and yaws with "original" twist barrels.

 

[Joe13]

Exactly

People buy a case of Chinese or Russian HP ammo for an AR or AK and think they now have the self-defense or hunting ammo they need if the SHTF.

They probably don't even go out and test it much less research it.

Being new to the 7.62 - I probably would have done something very similar (minus the using it for defense - I'm in the burbs and don't want to kill a neighbor).

I had the good fortune to connect with a member here; compared to me, he is a guru on the stuff.

I bought some bulk ammo from him and he educated me on the different brands/styles. I have it separated into plinking, hunting and SHTF now (I don't plan on hunting with it unless I go down south for a pig hunt and I may plink the rest away before the SHTF)

And a big Thanks to that member!!! I'd give a shout out but I'm not sure about name dropping so I'll leave it out.

 

[oli700]

Even the Russians saw the light in very fast light projectiles when they flushed the 7.62x39 in favor of trying to clone 5.56x45 using the 5.45x39 in the AK74.
All about personal preference, I have both.
If I had to choose one without a doubt AR.
Fix it using a tooth pick and parts you found no rivets, all milspec interchangeability no matter the maker , more accurate at longer ranges, more versatile in ammo selection from ammo that wont destroy the meat on a squirrel to repeatable accuracy and terminal energy at 800+ yards in the 77grSMK.
I do respect the power of a 7.62x39 though, hard hitter. IMO though, the AR is much more controllable under aimed rapid fire and easier to get more rounds on target.
If the only goal was to hammer steel off the stand then I might change my mind but when your talking flesh and bone 5.56 , with the correct round for the job, is mean. Problem is most folks base damage to living things on a M855 round being fired from a 1:7 twist barrel....change that to a 77gr SMK w/cannelure , or a slower twist 55gr fmj and you will see the idea of where the 5.56 was supposed to go.....go in your belly and come out your eye dragging intestines behind it.
Love these threads though, freedom of choice and opinion is a great thing

 

[Mephistopheles]

Having been hit twice by 7.62x39 I can attest to the fact it packs power. Felt like the strongest man in the world hit me as hard as he could with the world's heaviest sledge hammer. I prefer my SKS for reliability and accuracy over an AR or AK respectively.

 

[oli700]

Glad you are here to tell us about it. Glad I have never and hope to never. Talked to several who have and from 22lr to a 30-06 ......none of them have a Meh attitude about it. The two that were involving the 22lr were actually very serous, none are to be taken lightly......take care

 

[The Heretic]

Even the Russians saw the light in very fast light projectiles when they flushed the 7.62x39 in favor of trying to clone 5.56x45 using the 5.45x39 in the AK74.
All about personal preference, I have both.
If I had to choose one without a doubt AR.
Fix it using a tooth pick and parts you found no rivets, all milspec interchangeability no matter the maker , more accurate at longer ranges, more versatile in ammo selection from ammo that wont destroy the meat on a squirrel to repeatable accuracy and terminal energy at 800+ yards in the 77grSMK.
I do respect the power of a 7.62x39 though, hard hitter. IMO though, the AR is much more controllable under aimed rapid fire and easier to get more rounds on target.
If the only goal was to hammer steel off the stand then I might change my mind but when your talking flesh and bone 5.56 , with the correct round for the job, is mean. Problem is most folks base damage to living things on a M855 round being fired from a 1:7 twist barrel....change that to a 77gr SMK w/cannelure , or a slower twist 55gr fmj and you will see the idea of where the 5.56 was supposed to go.....go in your belly and come out your eye dragging intestines behind it.
Love these threads though, freedom of choice and opinion is a great thing

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments except for a few things:

a) The AK beats the AR all to hell with regards to being robust, reliable and durable - simply no comparison.

b) Besides 7.62x39, the AK can easily be found in 5.56x45, and can also be found in 5.45x39 and 7.62x51. Indeed, the best AKs in the world, Valmet and Galil, are mostly found either in 5.56x45 or 7.62x51.

Now granted, the AR platform has more standardized and therefore easier to find parts for, but OTOH, the AK is much less likely to need parts or repairs.

Plus, it needs no buffer tube, so it can be found in bullpup configurations.

As for the 5.45x39 - I think it was less about the Soviets "seeing the light" than it was that they were afraid they would get left behind so they got on the light bullet high velocity train before it left town.

The Brits did a lot of study on the optimum projectile diameter, mass and velocity for an Assault Rifle and came up with 6 to 7mm, 2400 to 2600 fps and 125 grains.

So except for the bullet diameter, the 7.62x39, is pretty darn near the optimum IMO, and loaded with the right bullet, like a quality plastic tip expanding hunting bullet, it will do most anything I need it to do in a self-defense or medium weight game hunting roles.

I don't care too much about flat trajectory when the typical shot in western Oregon is less than 200 yards, and usually less than 100 yards. I would be hesitant to shoot a bear or an elk or a cougar or a feral hog or a large feral rabid dog with a 5.56x45 even with a heavy bullet, but I can shoot 110 grain to 150 grain loads from a 7.62x39, and the heavy bullets will do in a pinch on elk or heavy black bear or pigs and will do a number on dogs.

I want an AR for various reasons, hence my desire to get this:

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/so-tell-me-why-i-should-not-buy-this-sig-516-pistol.174177/

The AR platform, properly setup, makes a good hunting rifle for light game and fun precision target shooting. It can take a number of different uppers from .17 rimfire to .50 BMG. You can get it in DIGS or gas piston, blowback and bolt action uppers.

Very versatile in the many different configurations you can set it up with, and still stick with just one lower. You can even go from pistol to rifle and back again.

I will eventually get one (this year money is a bit tight for me - putting a LOT of money into property improvements) and I anticipate having a lot of fun shooting it in different configurations.

But my go to self-defense rifle that I will trust with my life, will be an AK.

 

[Riot]

only just about every match ammo ever made.

federal 223 gold medal match, black hills 223 match. all hollowpoints.

FYI, not a ballistics expert but this is a common misconceptiong with match-grade ammunition. Match-grade ammunition may have an opening at the top, but it is for bullet stability and not to aid expansion like a traditional hollow point.

<broken link removed>
http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

I'm not saying that a .223 Match-grade bullet will not expand or fragment like a traditional .223 HP- just that it was not the intent by the bullet manufacturer.

 

[Joe13]

Funny that 300 blackout is the new rage for AR's and from my understanding it's a 7.62 in a trimmed 5.56 casing.

Seems like 7.62 is the popular kid on the block for most people.

 

[oli700]

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments except for a few things:

a) The AK beats the AR all to hell with regards to being robust, reliable and durable - simply no comparison.

b) Besides 7.62x39, the AK can easily be found in 5.56x45, and can also be found in 5.45x39 and 7.62x51. Indeed, the best AKs in the world, Valmet and Galil, are mostly found either in 5.56x45 or 7.62x51.

Now granted, the AR platform has more standardized and therefore easier to find parts for, but OTOH, the AK is much less likely to need parts or repairs.

Plus, it needs no buffer tube, so it can be found in bullpup configurations.

As for the 5.45x39 - I think it was less about the Soviets "seeing the light" than it was that they were afraid they would get left behind so they got on the light bullet high velocity train before it left town.

The Brits did a lot of study on the optimum projectile diameter, mass and velocity for an Assault Rifle and came up with 6 to 7mm, 2400 to 2600 fps and 125 grains.

So except for the bullet diameter, the 7.62x39, is pretty darn near the optimum IMO, and loaded with the right bullet, like a quality plastic tip expanding hunting bullet, it will do most anything I need it to do in a self-defense or medium weight game hunting roles.

I don't care too much about flat trajectory when the typical shot in western Oregon is less than 200 yards, and usually less than 100 yards. I would be hesitant to shoot a bear or an elk or a cougar or a feral hog or a large feral rabid dog with a 5.56x45 even with a heavy bullet, but I can shoot 110 grain to 150 grain loads from a 7.62x39, and the heavy bullets will do in a pinch on elk or heavy black bear or pigs and will do a number on dogs.

I want an AR for various reasons, hence my desire to get this:

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/so-tell-me-why-i-should-not-buy-this-sig-516-pistol.174177/

The AR platform, properly setup, makes a good hunting rifle for light game and fun precision target shooting. It can take a number of different uppers from .17 rimfire to .50 BMG. You can get it in DIGS or gas piston, blowback and bolt action uppers.

Very versatile in the many different configurations you can set it up with, and still stick with just one lower. You can even go from pistol to rifle and back again.

I will eventually get one (this year money is a bit tight for me - putting a LOT of money into property improvements) and I anticipate having a lot of fun shooting it in different configurations.

But my go to self-defense rifle that I will trust with my life, will be an AK.

All good points, still as you know there are two sides to every coin.
Anything made by man will need repair. AK is a robust design, and Afghanis keep them running making parts in a mud hut.
I am by no means a gun snob and appreciate them for all the qualities they bring to he table and accept their trade offs.
Once I got a forked horn with a Mini 14, 55gr bonded soft point at about 40 or so yards. I was surprised at the damage, never would have guessed and he was dead before he hit the ground.....placement. An AR is good at placement. I love mine and they are a proven good rifle, as is the AK and SKS......I actually prefer the M with the AK mags . A friend has the paratrooper and it is a hell of a weapon. I actually want VZ58 real bad and they are down to 399.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.The Brits did a lot of study on the optimum projectile diameter, mass and velocity for an Assault Rifle and came up with 6 to 7mm, 2400 to 2600 fps and 125 grains..

The US military used a 6mm rifle back in 1895..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy

 

[Sgt Nambu]

All good points, still as you know there are two sides to every coin.
Anything made by man will need repair. AK is a robust design, and Afghanis keep them running making parts in a mud hut.
I am by no means a gun snob and appreciate them for all the qualities they bring to he table and accept their trade offs.
Once I got a forked horn with a Mini 14, 55gr bonded soft point at about 40 or so yards. I was surprised at the damage, never would have guessed and he was dead before he hit the ground.....placement. An AR is good at placement. I love mine and they are a proven good rifle, as is the AK and SKS......I actually prefer the M with the AK mags . A friend has the paratrooper and it is a hell of a weapon. I actually want VZ58 real bad and they are down to 399.

Where are vz58 at $399? Sounds interesting! SRG

 

[Riot]

VZ58s are crap. The only thing that resembles an AK on the VZ is that they both shoot 7.62x39.

They won't take the same mags, the piston is separate from the bolt and those things are jam-o-matics when compared to the AK. Even the AMD-64 is better than the VZ58, and I think they're crap too! If you want an inexpensive AK, get a Saiga, or a WASR-10, hell even a MAK-90 before a VZ58!

Just my two cents...