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5.56 vs 7.62x39 my experience

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Joe13, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    AR's Suck! j/k :D

    Really though, I know this is kind of a Big Block vs a Turbo'ed 4 banger debate and I am not saying either or is better; I just thought I would share my experience this last weekend.

    A buddy of mine brought out some steel gongs he bought at a gun show (5" I think). So we hung them with the rope we had at the time (some nylon and some cloth, both in the 3/8" size range). Yes, we are both aware that rope was a poor choice and we had chain but no cutters so we did it as best we could.

    At the time we didn't think anything of it.

    He started by hitting the first gong 3 times with his 5.56AR.

    My first shot from my SKS (we were about 100 yards out) took the gong clean off of the rope. My buddy figured it was from him hitting it 3 times first.

    So I take three more shots and three more gongs are on the ground. It ripped straight thru the rope when it was struck.

    It was good fun for sure and we learned our lesson about gongs and rope;).

    We have compared ballistics and bullet size and weights and fps etc but this was probably the best example of the power difference at close range, for us at least.


    I really really wish I had the forethought to snap a few short vids but we were playing at the time and I didn't even consider it. I was in too much of a hurry to go tie them back up and start over lol.

    Anyway, share your stories or flame either platform or the other as pleases you...
     
  2. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    How far away were the gongs from where you were shooting? 7.62x19 definitely has the edge close up before it loses steam like a fat man running uphill to a health food store (JK, except for the 7.62 having more of everything when you are close)
     
  3. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    We were right at about 100 yards from shot to gong.

    I'm turning fast into a .308 fan, I just can't afford to plink with it much. I bought a bunch of the x39 rounds for my sks to make it affordable to make a big boom more often:) - it breaks up the .22lr quiet.
     
  4. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    there is a lot to love there - IIRC it's ballisticaly equivalent to the 30-30, which has been a popular cartridge for almost 130 years. I'm still a 5.56 guy, but mostly because of the platform choice for me. They are both good and both bad (but not very much).
     
  5. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Yea, ya don't use rope to "anchor" plate armor targets as they'll be chawed through perhaps instantly by the spall. what were you saying?
     
    AS556 likes this.
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    You could stand x thick armor plate upon a spaghetti strand and drill it through with a laser.. what does that tell you? lol
    If you want shenanigans at a hundred yards, use a 12 ga slug.
     
  7. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    This is a good analogy if the said big block is a late 80's or early 90's big block turd. :D

    I like both cartridges but don't think there near enough each other to even compare. Maybe 556 vs 5.45x39?
     
  8. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    If you want to go through steel, you go fast and hard.. if you want to bust rope, you go slow.
     
  9. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    My experiences...

    I've used the AR for many years and never could understand the allure of the AK- even in my time in the military- but I am quickly becoming an AK fan. I know there are scores of pros and cons between the two, but I'm just going to cover a few quick notes that I've noticed that really seperate the two platforms.

    How the AR is better than the AK:

    1) The mag release. At the push of a button you can drop the magazine much quicker than the AK.

    2) The recoil. I can get off about three rounds off my AR for every two rounds from my WASR-10.

    3) The bolt lock. I've fired ARs so much, I can tell when I've shot my last bullet because the recoil from the bolt being locked back to the rear is significantly different than any other shot. Also, once you insert a fresh mag that bolt release lever is a shooter's dream come true.

    4) 5.56 is readily available. SHTF that stuff is EVERYWHERE and almost everyone uses the AR (from the military, to the police to your average Joe).

    5) The picatinny rails make modding ARs extremely easy and affordable.

    6) 5.56 bullets, parts and magazines are lighter than 7.62x39. This was one of the biggest selling points from tranferring 7.62x51 to the 5.56- simply because the same soldier can carry and shoot more bullets. Superior firepower was favored over marksmanship, penetration and takedown.

    7) You can replace any part on an AR without having to worry about counting how many of the parts are American or Imported because of some archaic gun law invented by Liberals to make gun-control nuts feel good.

    How the AK is better than the AR:

    1) Reliability. By far the AK is one of the most reliable firearms I've ever handled. Every malfunction I've encountered has been a cheap magazine issue. She shoots anything you feed it and doesn't care about how much oil you give it. I've proned out with ARs- setting the magazines on the ground and have double-fed or mis-fed ARs just from setting the rifle's own weight on the ground. When I do this with the AK I've never had an issue. When deployed, I would have to clean my M4 every day, otherwise it would have feeding issues from all the dirt while an AK would be burried for years- dug up and used on coalition forces without a drop of lube.

    2) Simplicity. Fewer parts=fewer things that can go wrong. I've had to diagnose a lot of AR issues from needing to replace the gas rings on the bolt assembly to having a firing pin out of spec. Both tiny issues completely lock up ARs or make them an expensive, single-shot rifle.

    3) 7.62 x 39 is less expensive (per bullet) than 5.56.

    4) 7.62 has better takedown than 5.56.

    I know there's more...I know some people will probably dissagree but this is a simplistic analysis of my evaluation on the AK vs. AR platform.
     
  10. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Repent, tior boy.. goot talk.. lolz
     
  11. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    80's or 90's big block? 79 was the end of the line.

    Oh yay. SKS is a cheep piece of @rap.
     
  12. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I dunno,

    I've owned a yugo and have a 1964 Chinese /26\ paratrooper. I have always wanted an AK since getting to shoot one as a kid but once I had an sks, it has kind of turned into a future wish. With a few simple mods, it seems to be a stout, reliable, accurate rifle.

    I don't shoot it much past 150 yards (mostly due to space issues) and it performs great.

    I am now adamit about finding an AK with a milled receiver vs the stamped stuff. More weight but higher quality IMO. And spendy lol. At least for my meager budget.

    I guess to sum it up, I'd rather have a high quality SKS then a low quality AK for the long term.
     
    armedandsafe likes this.
  13. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    454&460 until late 90's or even early 00's. None others really matter.
     
  14. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    <- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
    Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

    I have a SIG556R, that's the 7.62X39 one. Someday I hope to get out and fire it along with my AR.


    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    Defender of Freedom Award
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    Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  15. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Actually the 396 that came in some '66 Chevelles was good too. Hyd lifters and 7,000 red line. NHRA factored to 450HP. Put one in my '66 Camaro. Street tires, through the mufflers and only short T bars. Would lift both fronts off the ground going into 2nd. And it wasn't just a few inches either. 11.96 @ 122 in the quarter.
     
  16. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    ^^^ couldn't agree more. All the early BBC's are great. Had many many big block Chevrolet engines and few Ford ones too. My post was in response to reply suggesting the big block died in 79, They did not it just ran like sick dogs after that.
     
  17. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    ARs can be accurized easier than AKs and they have that whole swappable multiple upper thing going on so you can turn the AR into a tack driving varmint shooter or a shorty combat rifle.

    Then there are the ergos - the AR has much better ergos than the AK.

    That said, for a simple, rock solid dependable self-defense rifle, my choice is the AK. If you want an 5.56x45, plenty of AKs out there in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x39 and if you are willing to spend the money on a Galil or Valmet, some very good AKs (the best) in 7.62x51 (just stock up on the spare parts and mags and have deep pockets - when I sold mine the mags were $150 each, but can be made from HK91 mags if you are handy).

    There are also bullpup AKs (Norinco 86S) although somewhat rare, they do share almost all their parts with the standard AK - not talking about conversions here. No bullpup ARs that are not conversions.

    The heart of any semi-auto firearm that isn't belt-fed is the magazine. Most metal mags for the AR are flimsy, many are aluminum and get dinged up easily. I believe the military of the Vietnam era maybe even looked at them as use them once, throw them away. The primary interface of a mag that determines how dependable it is, is the feed lips. Take a look at the feed lips of the AR mag - light, flimsy, easily deformed. Take a look at the mag lips of a metal AK mag, they almost look like they are machined out of heavy billet steel (they aren't, but they are hard to dent or deform).

    Between the stout mags, the heavy bolt, the piston action and the large clearances, is it any wonder that you can totally abuse and neglect an AK and it will still work?

    I have a friend who spent 10 years in the military, 4 to 6 in the AF (in their security forces - not the cardboard policemen at the gates, but the people who guarded the flight line and the missile installations and such) as I recall, then the rest in the Army Cavalry. He said he was once out on training and slipped in the mud going up a hill and fell flat on his face with his rifle, an M16, underneath him. The handguard twisted and broke the gas tube. His rifle at that point became a bolt-action and no easy fix in the field. His personal defense rifle as a civilian? An AK.

    As for ammo - lots of AKs and 7.62x39 ammo out there, maybe second to 5.56 but not far behind. More versatile IMO - I would rather shoot a deer with 7.62x39 than 5.56, and around here on the Wetside of Oregon, most shots at anything will be under 100 meters.

    Not that you can't hit things out there with an AK. When I was younger (about 20 years ago) I went shooting with some friends in eastern Washington. They had BP cannon and mortars, .50BMG rifles and such, you only got invited if you had something interesting to shoot - I had some rare bullpups, including an AWC G2A which I since sold.

    I was allowed to shoot a Norinco 86S bullpup AK that had a 7 inch sight radius. There were full silhouette targets at 500 meters. Off hand standing, with a spotter, I was able to hit the black portion of the target about 50 percent of the time. How many people here would volunteer to take a hit from a 125 grain 7.62 projectile at 1000 fps on the flip of a coin? Not me.

    Now granted, I wasn't being shot at, I had much better eyesight 20 years ago, and the target wasn't moving, but still... don't believe it when someone says you can't hit anything beyond 200 meters with an AK. It can be done and I am just a fair marksman.
     
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  18. WashCoDad

    WashCoDad Beanerton Active Member

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    The 154gr 7.62x39 wolf is good till about 150.
     
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    A freaking 9mm handgun is "good" out to 150 yards. come on
     
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  20. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I saw on TV that there is now an AK being 100% produced in the USA and it does not feature the 'cheap' metal stamping but the original machining.