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5.56/.223?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Izzy, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Izzy

    Izzy Oakridge Active Member

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    I have a New England Handi-rifle in .223. Is it "safe" to shoot 5.56 through this rifle?
     
  2. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    The experts will chime in but the 5.56 cases are a little thicker and will produce higher pressures in the chamber if it's a 223 chamber.
    So you have to decide if the gun is heavy enough to handle the pressure difference.
    Not sure I would on a New England and you can get 223 for about the same cost.
     
  3. Izzy

    Izzy Oakridge Active Member

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    I only ask because I have 5.56 ammo. :thumbup:
     
  4. Nutty4Guns

    Nutty4Guns Portland ADHD Superstar

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    The 5.56mm are also slightly longer. You can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber but not the other way around.
     
  5. Mike Douglass

    Mike Douglass Mount Vernon, Oregon, United States New Member

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    Not a good idea. Higher pressure, not safe overall.
     
  6. Guilty

    Guilty Salem, Oregon Active Member

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    The answer is NO.
     
  7. Lasers

    Lasers Beaverton Member

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    Burrowed from The Gun Zone -- SAAMI on 5.56 v. .223 Remington

    The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

    The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat.
     
  8. ClarkM

    ClarkM mercer island New Member

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    PrimersFallingOut223tiny-1.jpg
    h335cases223small.jpg

    AR15BlueDot18Gr33VmaxDSCF0027-2.jpg

    I have been overloading handloads as a hobby to get to the truth, ever since I made my money overloading other military equipment to get to the truth.

    See these pics of 223 brass? It was at much higher than 5.56 specs.

    If you could just point me to that sporting 223 that is likely to blow up, I will very soon buy one and test it.

    I did get a Lux 222 that is just a converted 22LR with the only locking is the tiny bolt handle in a slot in the tube receiver... but alas, I can't seem to blow it up.
     
  9. oa98pistol512

    oa98pistol512 salem area Member

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    The handi rifle has one of the thickest chambers for 223 around...I would not suggest shooting 5.56 on regular basis but it can be done thru your single shot safely it will just wear quicker...Also if you reload back off by at least 4 to5 grains when loading a 5.56 case versus 223 case. I get about the same fps out of both when I load the 5.56 about 7 grains less tha the 223
     
  10. ClarkM

    ClarkM mercer island New Member

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    I have calculated the strength of my 45/70 handi rifle back in 1999 with the help of my gun designer chief engineer father and mechanical engineering professor.

    I had never heard of double shear, section modulus, and Lame's thick wall tube stress formula before then. I calculated it was much stronger that the brass could ever take.

    Some doubted my math, so I validated it with testing.

    A test from 1999
     
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Not real sure what the 45-70 info does for the 223/5.56 discussion,but I'm not a mechanical engineer
     
  12. ClarkM

    ClarkM mercer island New Member

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    Here is how thin walled hoop stress works.
    The stress on the steel is
    Stress = [Pressure] [Inside diameter]/ 2[wall thickness]

    That formula is obvious upon inspection to bright jr high kids.
    Lame's formula for thick wall was figured out 500 years ago, by Lame, the French Mathematician, and I would have never figured that out on my own.
    But the answers for the two systems are always close, so intuitively, just visualize the thin wall formula.

    The stress is proportional to the inside diameter.
    So the barrel bursting stress gets worse as the inside diameter gets bigger or as the chamber walls get thinner.
    That is why Elmer Keith blew up so many SAA 45 Colts, until he overloaded the 44 special revolvers that both the thicker walls and smaller chamber diameters, and he was able to make the 44 mag pressures.

    That is why the 45/70 is so much harder of a test for the handi rifle than the .223... to take the rifle to brass failure
    Hoop stress is higher.
    The bolt thrust is higher.
     
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    The Ruger Mini-14 Target Rifle has a caution to never shoot 5.56 in it according to one report I read on the .223/5.56 dangers.
     
  14. Izzy

    Izzy Oakridge Active Member

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    I know as a rule, you should never run 5.56 in a rifle chambered in .223. "BUT" the Handi-Rifle is a pretty tough gun.
     
  15. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    I still wouldn't do it unless it was a life or death situation and just because the OP happens to already have some 5.56 isn't reason enough for me to try it.
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.