4WD vehicle suggestion

[ZigZagZeke]

While I was not considering this a BOV, I do think you have the right ideas for a BOV: 350 chevy (parts are everywhere and easy to work on), and your idea of shorter wheel base makes sense. While bigger than your vehicle, I still miss my 1970's k20 suburban (350) -- it was basically a larger version of the BOV you described.

Cheers,
DJM

I will never be without a full sized Suburban 4WD. My current one is a 2000, 6 Liter, 3/4 ton, 150K miles. I have pulled a 6000 lb. tractor on a 2500 lb. lowboy over Hwy 26 to Maupin with it, no sweat. My bug out rig is this Suburban coupled to my toy hauler, which is always stocked and ready to go. You can't beat 6500 lbs for traction in ice and snow. I've never had to put chains on this one, even with an inch of ice under a foot of snow. My previous one got my son to the emergency room in the wee hours of January over sheet ice so bad the ambulances weren't running. I've had Toyotas and such, and they illustrate another good point with the Suburban, the Suburban is fixable when it breaks, which is rarely. All this and it's as comfortable as any luxury car on long trips.

 

[The Cheese]

The H2 and H3 are absolute garbage.

+1.

 

[ar57]

They could be garbage.
But then again, I only play on snow and sand,
I guess i'm one of the lucky ones

 

[Father of four]

We love our 2001 Chevrolet Suburban! Go get ya one.

 

[drew]

If we are talking stock. Anything from hummer!!!

I'd take a stock critter gitter.

YouTube - Critter Gitter - Feature - Car and Driver

 

[Decker]

I'd take a stock critter gitter.



YouTube - Critter Gitter - Feature - Car and Driver

Looks drafty.

-d

 

[djm68]

I'm a hardcore wheeler and have been for 25 years. My suggestion is an '87-'95 Nissan Pathfinder. Their drivetrains are strong and reliable and they will out-wheel *any* other IFS SUV or pickup truck. They are also quite comfortable and civilized with very car-like handling on tarmac. Road and Track always called them the "Driver's SUV". The only real downside to a Pathy is they do not have the seemingly endless aftermarket support that Toys and Jeeps do. You can easily buy everything you may ever want for one but you won't have your choice of 10 manufacturers for lift kits, bumpers, etc. You said you're not interested in wheeling, from what your situation describes I think a stock Pathfinder might be ideal for you. If you don't wheel it hard you probably can't break it. If you do wheel it hard add a $30 steering idler brace and you probably can't break it if you try. I wheel mine hard and the only strengthened suspension or steering part is the idler arm brace. An SE V6 Pathy with the off road package has four wheel disk brakes, rear LSD, 4.62 gears, and rolls on 31-10.5-15 tires stock. Late ones have ABS as well though I prefer vehicles without it as they work better in snow and ice. Check out the forum at NPORA, the Nissan Pathfinder Off Road Association if you're interested in more information. Feel free to look me up over there, my username is the same as here. Here's a shot of my '88 Pathy on 33s from a recent club trail run on the 311 at Evans Creek:

Sorry to revive this old thread so late, but I am very close to buying. I've narrowed my decision down to a gen 1 pathy or a Cherokee. I am rather fond of the 88-89 2 door pathie. Was the 88-89 pathie available in the SE 3.0 trim? How does one tell if a pathy has the "off road" package?

Thanks!
DJM

 

[djm68]

I know over 40 people who have had or still have 4.0/AW4 XJ's. Most are over 150,000 and some over 250,000 without any major problems. They are extremely easy to work on and find parts for. I've personally owned 3 and the early ones without the 4.0 are POS's that I had nothing but problems with. The 87-01 with the 4.0 are as reliable a vehicle as you can find.







Only if it's the 1998 5.9 Limited Grand Cherokee. The transmissions are very weak in the ZJ's (93-98 Grand Cherokees) and the engines are worse in the WJ's (99-04 Grand Cherokees). Some of the 1993 ZJ's came with the same 4.0 engine/AW4 transmission as the XJ's and are as reliable, but most of the V8 ZJ/WJ's are not.



Actually, the Selec-trac transfer case (NP 242) is weaker because it has the full-time option. The Command-trac (NP231) t-case is stronger. And the vac disco front axle is only on the earlier models (pre 91).

So, a 1992-1995 Cherokee with "Command-trac" and the I6 HO would be the preferred model? I am close to buying -- any other "gotchas" I should know about before buying?

Thanks,
DJM

 

[Mr.510]

Sorry to revive this old thread so late, but I am very close to buying. I've narrowed my decision down to a gen 1 pathy or a Cherokee. I am rather fond of the 88-89 2 door pathie. Was the 88-89 pathie available in the SE 3.0 trim? How does one tell if a pathy has the "off road" package?

Thanks!
DJM

My daily driver/wheeler is an '88 SE Off Road with 3.0 V6 and automatic. ID-ing them is not 100% as there are some 'random' trucks out there plus owners switching parts around... but an 'Off Road' package 2-door Pathy will be an SE-V6 with all black trim (no chrome or SS), roof rack, sun roof, tire carrier, electric adjustable shocks, rear disc brakes, fender flares and mudflaps all-round, and limited slip rear end. These trucks were all fully loaded with every option. The only way to know for sure if it's got the rear LSD is to jack it up and turn one rear tire. If the opposite one turns the same way it's LSD. If it turns the opposite way it's an open diff or a completely worn out LSD. The rear end code on the data plate only shows the ratio, not whether or not it has LSD. And by all means if anybody has any other Pathfinder questions ask away!

 

[wsu 5.9er]

So, a 1992-1995 Cherokee with "Command-trac" and the I6 HO would be the preferred model? I am close to buying -- any other "gotchas" I should know about before buying?

Thanks,
DJM

Well, any 1991+ will have the HO 4.0 engine. They continously made improvements through the years, so the latest model you can find for the lowest price is what I would go for. For a 92-95 stock XJ, you should be able to find them for between $1000-$2000 in good shape.

 

[A.I.P.]

As far as Limited Slip goes I am of 2 minds on that subject. I live in the boonies and often walk home when I get my rig stuck. I used to drive an X-GI truck with locking diffs just so I could have a rig to pull the other rigs free from the muck!
I currently have a GMC with LS dif--I get it stuck often and have a winch to get it free.
I also have an 84 Dodge Ram that used to be a dog off road but with an EZ Locker rear diff. I often drop tire pressure down to 15 pounds and drive in 2WD where most 4X4's get stuck, some small bit of skill is invoulved as well.
Although expensive, I would recomend the ARB Air Locker Diff Locking system in a daily driver. It can be installed in any open diff. It is not in play untill it is locked in by the driver, and with careful driving, it performs miracles off road.
EZ Lockers are constantly locked, and in a daily driver, will wear out 'quickly' especialy if towing a heavy load.
Mounting a winch to the rear of your vechicle is also an option.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The H2 and H3 are absolute garbage.

Compared to what?
The H2 atleast is a very competent luxury SUV.
Stock for stock, it will out off-road, or at least keep up, with nearly any SUV sold today, and it's loaded with luxury features.

In snow/sand they do GREAT. They have very nice 4wd systems and tons of ground clearance.
For the most part it's not a rock crawler, but they're fairly capable even when stock:
YouTube - HUMMER H2 at Durango
YouTube - HUMMER H3 at Durango

I dont know of a vehicle that gives you the amount of luxury that the H2 does while still retaining SUPERB off-road capabilities.

 

[wsu 5.9er]

Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited will run circles around an H2/H3 and have more luxury as well.

Compared to what?
The H2 atleast is a very competent luxury SUV.
Stock for stock, it will out off-road, or at least keep up, with nearly any SUV sold today, and it's loaded with luxury features.

In snow/sand they do GREAT. They have very nice 4wd systems and tons of ground clearance.
For the most part it's not a rock crawler, but they're fairly capable even when stock:
YouTube - HUMMER H2 at Durango
YouTube - HUMMER H3 at Durango

I dont know of a vehicle that gives you the amount of luxury that the H2 does while still retaining SUPERB off-road capabilities.

 

[Rix]

Compared to what?
I dont know of a vehicle that gives you the amount of luxury that the H2 does while still retaining SUPERB off-road capabilities.

Landcruiser.

And you can see out of it.

 

[just dan]

my 4 wheel daily driver is a '94 Suburban K1500 4x4.

i'd wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone as a survival vehicle except for a couple minor snags:
- in stock form, it's not too good off road. or on road.
- the mileage is horrid; imagine having to hand pump 40 gallons into the tank every 500 miles (if driven carefully like a little old lady).
- it's too big to really fit anywhere.

on the plus side it's damned comfortable, easily fits my family (wife, 3 kids, big dog) with plenty of space left over for just about anything, they're dirt cheap, reliable and easy to repair. with just over 175k miles the only things it's ever had fail: 1 set of alternator brushes, 1 starter.

i've been giving thought to replacing it with a late XJ Cherokee... except the third row with over 4' of space behind it comes in handy a few times/year when we go camping. oh, and i can flip the 2nd and 3rd row down and easily fit 4x8 sheets of plywood/sheetrock/whatever.

 

[djm68]

my 4 wheel daily driver is a '94 Suburban K1500 4x4.

i'd wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone as a survival vehicle except for a couple minor snags:
- in stock form, it's not too good off road. or on road.
- the mileage is horrid; imagine having to hand pump 40 gallons into the tank every 500 miles (if driven carefully like a little old lady).
- it's too big to really fit anywhere.

on the plus side it's damned comfortable, easily fits my family (wife, 3 kids, big dog) with plenty of space left over for just about anything, they're dirt cheap, reliable and easy to repair. with just over 175k miles the only things it's ever had fail: 1 set of alternator brushes, 1 starter.

i've been giving thought to replacing it with a late XJ Cherokee... except the third row with over 4' of space behind it comes in handy a few times/year when we go camping. oh, and i can flip the 2nd and 3rd row down and easily fit 4x8 sheets of plywood/sheetrock/whatever.

We loved our 1980 K20 Suburban despite it's abysmal mileage. Huge, comfortable, and able to fit 7-8 adults.

I've seen a few site online that swap in cummings diesels into 2001-2005 suburbans. Serious torque/power and 20mpg! Unfortunately, you are looking at something like $20k for the conversion -- ouch.

While the Suburban is HUGE, our K20 had a much better turning circle than our 1995 Nissan Pathie! Just before we move from Calif to Portland, I took my wife and son on a trip to San Francisco...yes, in the Suburban. We were house hunting and drove ALL over SF, the narrow streets, steep, etc...the Burban handled it with aplomb and two things really worked in its favor: we were might higher up than everyone else (situational awareness!) and, perhaps most important, people were not really willing to get in the way of a lifted, primered, slightly rusted 'burban! King of the Road, baby!

DJM

 

[djm68]

Compared to what?
The H2 atleast is a very competent luxury SUV.
Stock for stock, it will out off-road, or at least keep up, with nearly any SUV sold today, and it's loaded with luxury features.

In snow/sand they do GREAT. They have very nice 4wd systems and tons of ground clearance.
For the most part it's not a rock crawler, but they're fairly capable even when stock:
YouTube - HUMMER H2 at Durango
YouTube - HUMMER H3 at Durango

I dont know of a vehicle that gives you the amount of luxury that the H2 does while still retaining SUPERB off-road capabilities.

I think I speak for alot of us in saying we are not really looking for luxury in our off roaders. I do not doubt the H2/H3 does well in snow and sand, but so do all Subarus, Jeeps, Blazers, etc, etc, etc.

Personally, I'd never buy an H2/H3...they look ridiculous, on top of their poor mileage, weight, poor visibility.

DJM

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited will run circles around an H2/H3 and have more luxury as well.

Not only does the grand cherokee pail in comparison to the H2 in terms of luxury, in terms of off road prowess it's not even in the same class:

HUMMER H2
Ground Clearance: 9.7"
Approach Angle: 42.8 degrees
Departure Angle: 40.0 degrees

Jeep Grand Cherokee
Ground Clearance: 8.3"
Approach Angle: 35.0 degrees
Departure Angle: 27.0 degrees

The Grand Cherokee is closer to the H3... but still falls short.

HUMMER H3 Alpha
Ground Clearance: 9.1"
Approach Angle: 39.0 degrees
Departure Angle: 36.5 degrees

Landcruiser.

And you can see out of it.

Landcruiser comes close, but again, no cigar.

Land Rover LR3
Ground Clearance: 9.5" (off-road mode)
Approach Angle: 37.2 degrees (off-road mode)
Departure Angle: 27.9 degrees (off-road mode)

To top it off, it has a lower towing capacity, less cargo space, and gets worse MPG... then you get to deal with the ridiculous repair costs.

I think I speak for alot of us in saying we are not really looking for luxury in our off roaders. I do not doubt the H2/H3 does well in snow and sand, but so do all Subarus, Jeeps, Blazers, etc, etc, etc.

Personally, I'd never buy an H2/H3...they look ridiculous, on top of their poor mileage, weight, poor visibility.

DJM

.

You have a different perspective on looking for a vehicle. I dont look for an "off roader", I look for a daily driver that I can also take off road from time to time.
Most time spent in a vehicle will just be going on paved roads from point a to point b.
The luxury may not matter for those brief periods when you're going offroad, but for the vast majority of time you're driving your vehicle, it makes a HUGE difference.

I have a tahoe that I love... I have heated leather seats, sunroof, tv screens, etc, and it can take me wherever I want to go, but it pales in comparison to my friends H2 in every way. From on to offroad prowess, the h2 has me beat... and he's even getting better gas mileage.

This is why I asked what they are "garbage" in comparison to. I could say that a lamborghini is garbage because I could build a honda civic that could beat it in the 1/4 mile.
Stock for stock, the h2 is very hard to beat for luxury and capability.

 

[java]

my audi will do as well as a h2 in sand and snow.....

remember a land crusier has two solid axles. h2 has IFS, meaning very little articulation, yes it will have a little higher gound clearance in the middle because there isnt an axle but it just doesnt flex.

it also wontfit down any reall "off road" trails/roads, its just too damn wide.

 

[just dan]

We loved our 1980 K20 Suburban despite it's abysmal mileage. Huge, comfortable, and able to fit 7-8 adults.

I've seen a few site online that swap in cummings diesels into 2001-2005 suburbans. Serious torque/power and 20mpg! Unfortunately, you are looking at something like $20k for the conversion -- ouch.

While the Suburban is HUGE, our K20 had a much better turning circle than our 1995 Nissan Pathie! Just before we move from Calif to Portland, I took my wife and son on a trip to San Francisco...yes, in the Suburban. We were house hunting and drove ALL over SF, the narrow streets, steep, etc...the Burban handled it with aplomb and two things really worked in its favor: we were might higher up than everyone else (situational awareness!) and, perhaps most important, people were not really willing to get in the way of a lifted, primered, slightly rusted 'burban! King of the Road, baby!

DJM

i've ridden in a '94 suburban with a cummins 4bt (4cyl turbo diesel) mated to the 4l60e auto. it was about as slow as the 5.7L gas engine, got ~20mpg on the highway and was torquey as could be around town. the dude had a good $8k into the conversion though... not sure i could justify that.
my suburban was well under $3k to buy a couple years ago. i've got $36 in repairs to it. i put ~$150/month into the tank. it would take a looong time to hit the break-even point to that diesel conversion.... though i still think it'd be pretty cool.

we had the thing in about 2 feet of snow on top of semi-frozen mud, on mt hood recently. it did pretty well considering what it is: stock height, bilstein HDs, pretty worn Yokohama Geolanders. every once in a while i think "straight axle front conversion, 4 inch lift, 38 inch BFG all terrains, MPG be damned"...