460 Rowland

[mjbskwim]

Cuz I can?

 

[45 for me]

The Rowland has more recoil than a 10 for sure. I haven't shot game with either but the 460 seems to have a lot more punch. The bad thing with the Rowland is the heavy spring makes racking the slide pretty stout on a 1911. You get 2 springs with the kit and I put the lighter one in . Not to sure how bad it is on a glock but I imagine if you were to carry it for protection it would have to be with one in the tube.

On the recoil vs 10mm. For the Glocks, I actually find the recoil similar between the max load 10mms and 460R. I agree that the regular 10mm is much less recoil, but with something like underwood ammo, I think the recoil is similar, which surprised me. I chalked it up to the 460r having a comp, and the 10mm not. The slide on my 460 is also a little longer, but I was shooting a very similar setup between the two (as you can see in the pics from my earlier posts)

They are both at the ragged edge of what I can accurately double tap. I think if you work on recoil control, they are both a great fighting pistol option.

You would expect more punch though. I can load up 460R to 1000ftlbs of muzzle energy, and 10mm tops out around 800ftlbs.

As to why? I think it is a great bedside option. Lot's of power, but with XTP's they don't over penetrate. It is a great option for a hiking gun too, as that is the most firepower you are going to get in that size and weight package. But if I'm honest, its for fun.

I still like the 10mm for carry, as I have an SVI compact 2011 that is concealable, unlike the longslide glock with comp.

 

[B5Ben]

So looking at the sale for BF I see the G30 kit has a monsterous rear sight included. I am assuming it's for increased mass for recoil reduction. Pretty ugly if you ask me.



I still want one, but in a full size frame.

 

[45 for me]

... I am assuming it's for increased mass for recoil reduction. Pretty ugly if you ask me.

Yes (well, and to slow down the slide enough not to outrun the magazine spring) and Yes.

I don't trust the compact versions to be reliable. They may be good, I don't have one or anything, but I did get burned on the colt officers model 45. It worked great most of the time, but you need at least commander length to be reliable all the time, and that was with 45acp

 

[B5Ben]

Ya agree and don't think I would sacrifice my G30 to do it. I am debating between the 1911 and G21 version. I would have to get a G21 though......

 

[Modeler]

Ya agree and don't think I would sacrifice my G30 to do it. I am debating between the 1911 and G21 version. I would have to get a G21 though......

Sounds like an obvious choice to me, might as well add one more to the safe!

 

[Certaindeaf]

"Clark", a pnw'er from "the high road" would hotrod everthang. I think he made a .25acp Colt pocket pistol go 3000 fps, bless his little heart.

 

[Cruizer Bill]

Clark Custom Guns will convert a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP conversion or a Smith & Wesson Model 25 or 625 to .460 Rowland for $100 if you wish to go that route.

 

[pipefitter074]

Here is my setup:

Fun times. This is on a frame from a Gen4 Glock 41 that I own. I had purchased the completed long slide before the 41 (I was using it on a Glock 10mm frame so I needed the completed slide as well as the conversion kit, which consisted of the 6.61 inch 460R barrel, steel guide rod, 24lb spring, and compensator) otherwise I could have theoretically converted the G41 slide. The G41 slide is smaller (narrower, not as tall) as the Lonewolf or the G21 slide. Because of that, I prefer the beefier Lonewolf slide for 460 Rowland (Weight is your friend). I bought the extended long slide, without the top cuts to get the most mass on the top end, and have a longer barrel to build velocity of the round. One of the issues with 460 conversions is they can run too fast for the magazine spring, and cause reliability issues. Below is the setup. It was just under $500 for the complete top end, all in with shipping and the adjustable sights.



The loads I am using are 12.1 grains of Hodgden Longshot, with Hornady 230gr XTP JHP, CCI 300 large pistol primers, Starline Brass, and a COL of 1.270. I worked this load up in several increments starting from 9.5gr of powder and moving up to 12.1 ish. I am using a Lee AutoDisk powder measure and the 0.92 disk hole, which meters between 11.9 and 12.3 and averages about 12.0-12.1. As you hit 11-12 grains of powder, you start seeing a sight flatening of the primer, but less than what you see with Underwood factory ammo. The cases show no signs of stress or expansion, which you would expect with that double wall thickness needed for CUP of 40,000 psi.





If you haven't figured it out yet, 460R is a hot wildcat load. With the 6.61" barrel, these loads should be pushing the 230gr XTP at 1,400 FPS! That is about a 1000 lbft of muzzle energy. Booyaa! Well into 44 magnum territory

So how does is shoot? Much tamer than you might think. Huge boom of course, but not much muzzle flash with the compensator. So far no failures from any load size, and very good accuracy. Recoil is stout, but no worse than the hot 10mm loads that I shoot out of this gun.




Both top ends will work on the G41, G21, and G20 frames. As I said before, the recoil is very similar between the 460R and the hot 10mm. I am guessing the comp and larger mass of the slide tame the 460R a little. The 10mm is 200gr at about 1300 FPS, so quite a bit more muzzle energy in the 460 Rowland, and a larger diameter to transfer it. Johnny sums it up pretty well in this video. I especially enjoy the part about 1:15 in.

View attachment 258592 View attachment 258593 View attachment 258594

I bought Glock 41 conversion, been 4 months wait but its finally on its way!! could I see the video? it says private

 

[45 for me]

I bought Glock 41 conversion, been 4 months wait but its finally on its way!! could I see the video? it says private

It was Johnny's video, I don't know where it went, but I did find a cut up and condensed version. The 1:15 time stamp I was referring to can now be seen at about 0:20 on this video

7 Year later update.

This is still a fun pistol to shoot, but I have downgraded it from tool to toy because (my experience only):

1. After a few hundred rounds the recoil spring shortened/loosened enough that the heavy slide wouldn't go all the way back into battery. I had heard of issues with the lone wolf recoil guide rod being very very slightly short, so I loc-tited the screw and left it backed out one turn. This seemed to fix the issue, but it is an admittedly sloppy fix
2. I needed the 160% magazine springs to get the next round up fast enough for the slide to strip it out of the magazine during recoil. Whether it was outgassing pressure during cycling, or just the stronger springs, over time the retention\release notch in the plastic glock magazines wore down enough to drop the magazine after every shot. So it essentially consumes magazines.

So, still turns heads at the range, still annihilates waters jugs, but not for serious use anymore.

 

[pipefitter074]

It was Johnny's video, I don't know where it went, but I did find a cut up and condensed version. The 1:15 time stamp I was referring to can now be seen at about 0:20 on this video

7 Year later update.

This is still a fun pistol to shoot, but I have downgraded it from tool to toy because (my experience only):

1. After a few hundred rounds the recoil spring shortened/loosened enough that the heavy slide wouldn't go all the way back into battery. I had heard of issues with the lone wolf recoil guide rod being very very slightly short, so I loc-tited the screw and left it backed out one turn. This seemed to fix the issue, but it is an admittedly sloppy fix
2. I needed the 160% magazine springs to get the next round up fast enough for the slide to strip it out of the magazine during recoil. Whether it was outgassing pressure during cycling, or just the stronger springs, over time the retention\release notch in the plastic glock magazines wore down enough to drop the magazine after every shot. So it essentially consumes magazines.

So, still turns heads at the range, still annihilates waters jugs, but not for serious use anymore.

Thanks for the update, great comparison!! Doubt I ever run many rounds thru mine, It's mainly for brown bear defense in the bush>

 

[45 for me]

Thanks for the update, great comparison!! Doubt I ever run many rounds thru mine, It's mainly for brown bear defense in the bush>

Cool. Don't get me wrong, both the issues I had were fixable and understandable given the pressures it was running. The gun wasn't designed for them. I suppose I could have toned down the powder charges but where is the fun in that?

As for not shooting a lot of rounds, you'd be surprised. It's comfortable to shoot, and every one at the range is going to want to try it.

Big benefit in price to load your own. I think I was paying about $0.55 a round with new brass and Hornady XTP bullets (which at that speed tend to fragment rather than expand, but it gets the job done plenty well). Worth noting, the brass came out so fast, they got a crease where they hit the outside of the ejection port every time, so you could only use new brass to load them. Different slides probably have different results, and I could have machined off the sharper edges. Still cheaper than buying it though...