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460 Rowland

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by edslhead, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Was out shootin the Para 1911 with the 460 barrel kit yesterday.. Kicks a lot like a 44 mag. I put 1 through the chrony and got this. Underwood 230gr JHP.

    IMG_0229_zpstly8ootm.jpg

    The casings are 1/16 inch longer than 45acp so you cant load em in a regular 45. With 8 rounds it will be a good camp gun.

    IMG_0040_zpszap0hsfb.jpg
     
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  2. winchester270

    winchester270 Lafayette Active Member

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    More pictures please :) Awesome setup..
    I have been very interested in the 45 super mods, but that will have to wait for more fun funds..
     
  3. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Here's the link for the conversions. I started with a Para Expert but there's a bunch of 1911's that you can use. I sanded and polished the slide on it , not sure why:rolleyes:

    http://www.460rowland.com/

    IMG_0175_zpstlg5j9e1.jpg
     
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  4. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is my setup:

    Fun times. This is on a frame from a Gen4 Glock 41 that I own. I had purchased the completed long slide before the 41 (I was using it on a Glock 10mm frame so I needed the completed slide as well as the conversion kit, which consisted of the 6.61 inch 460R barrel, steel guide rod, 24lb spring, and compensator) otherwise I could have theoretically converted the G41 slide. The G41 slide is smaller (narrower, not as tall) as the Lonewolf or the G21 slide. Because of that, I prefer the beefier Lonewolf slide for 460 Rowland (Weight is your friend). I bought the extended long slide, without the top cuts to get the most mass on the top end, and have a longer barrel to build velocity of the round. One of the issues with 460 conversions is they can run too fast for the magazine spring, and cause reliability issues. Below is the setup. It was just under $500 for the complete top end, all in with shipping and the adjustable sights.

    e29c50c7-47b2-43a3-b90b-bc4c3e3bcbb9_zpscpokkmju.jpg

    The loads I am using are 12.1 grains of Hodgden Longshot, with Hornady 230gr XTP JHP, CCI 300 large pistol primers, Starline Brass, and a COL of 1.270. I worked this load up in several increments starting from 9.5gr of powder and moving up to 12.1 ish. I am using a Lee AutoDisk powder measure and the 0.92 disk hole, which meters between 11.9 and 12.3 and averages about 12.0-12.1. As you hit 11-12 grains of powder, you start seeing a sight flatening of the primer, but less than what you see with Underwood factory ammo. The cases show no signs of stress or expansion, which you would expect with that double wall thickness needed for CUP of 40,000 psi.


    75345e8e-1a55-4727-b6ed-d92067f5ca64_zpsrk5tpyss.jpg


    If you haven't figured it out yet, 460R is a hot wildcat load. With the 6.61" barrel, these loads should be pushing the 230gr XTP at 1,400 FPS! That is about a 1000 lbft of muzzle energy. Booyaa! Well into 44 magnum territory

    So how does is shoot? Much tamer than you might think. Huge boom of course, but not much muzzle flash with the compensator. So far no failures from any load size, and very good accuracy. Recoil is stout, but no worse than the hot 10mm loads that I shoot out of this gun.


    f6ad6e4e-f11e-4520-95c7-ea881109994f_zpskho9widb.jpg

    Both top ends will work on the G41, G21, and G20 frames. As I said before, the recoil is very similar between the 460R and the hot 10mm. I am guessing the comp and larger mass of the slide tame the 460R a little. The 10mm is 200gr at about 1300 FPS, so quite a bit more muzzle energy in the 460 Rowland, and a larger diameter to transfer it. Johnny sums it up pretty well in this video. I especially enjoy the part about 1:15 in.

    [video=youtube;KzHD5jSNDDg]
     
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  5. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Never had a Glock but that looks like a pretty good setup. Doesn't Rowland make some kind of counterweight for the slide?
     
  6. B5Ben

    B5Ben Boise Well-Known Member

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    This thread really has me thinking about doing one of these. I just happen to have an "extra" 1911 that would be great for the cause.
     
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  7. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have seen the counterweight for the compact models, they fit into the dovetail on the rear sight. The slide I bought at lonewolf is actually longer than the normal longslide glocks, and I chose the model without the top cut outs to increase the weight. So far it runs like a champ on any load I've put in it. I just made up another 100 of the max power ones to go destroy some produce.
     
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  8. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you reload you should absolutely do it. Same dies as 45acp, (although they have to be setup differently than the directions because there are no directions for 460R). 45acp bullets, and the Starline brass is reasonably priced.

    This round blows s@#t up! All the power and bang of 44mag without the recoil, and higher mag capacity. The XTP bullets penetrate about 14" in ballistic gel, which means they will transfer most of that 1000 ftlbs of energy into the target. It is my bedside pistol right now.
     
  9. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    I like that setup! I just picked up a G21 Gen 4 yesterday, I'm planning on getting a 460 Rowland conversion kit from Lone Wolf soon. If I like it I might end up getting a complete slide as well so I don't have to mess with the compensator.

    How does the Lone Wolf slide work on the Gen 4 frame? Did you have to use the Gen 4 spring adapter, or is that only needed for a Gen 4 slide?
     
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  10. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    How does the Lone Wolf slide work on the Gen 4 frame? Did you have to use the Gen 4 spring adapter, or is that only needed for a Gen 4 slide?

    The Lonewolf slide is essentially Gen1-3. In the Rowland kit you get a steel Gen3 guide rod and 24lb spring, so the slide and guide rod match, and will work on Gen4 and Gen3 frames just fine. I've used it on my Gen4 41 and my Gen3 20SF frames.

    The adapter is to fit a Gen3 recoil guide onto a Gen4 slide, so you will need that if you use the Glock slide.


    If I like it I might end up getting a complete slide as well so I don't have to mess with the compensator.

    The compensator has an allen set screw to hold it in place, but I didn't torque it down too hard because I didn't want to strip it or mar the barrel/threads. As a result it would come loose during shooting. I ended up using loc-tite on the comp, so that barrel now lives in that slide. So that's an argument for getting the complete slide. On the other hand, you can shoot 45acp out of the 460R barrel, so that is argument for the barrel only. I haven't done this, but I bet it is not very reliable with the 24lb spring.
     
  11. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    I thought about doing this, but did little research.

    I have a Gen4 G20, so I believe I'll need to purchase a top end for it.

    1:15 into the video has me sold :)
     
  12. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    ok so according to Rowland you can also shoot a 45acp and 45super in the Rowland converted pistol without changing anything. What I want to know is how that works since the 460R uses a much stronger recoil spring than a 45acp?
     
  13. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I don't know how it works, but he demonstrates shooting .45acp from the conversion without changing anything and his gun seems to cycle just fine. Must still be plenty of pressure in a .45acp to still cycle the pistol reliably with that 24lb spring.
     
  14. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I've had a few standard rounds stovepipe, but if you hold it firm they'll cycle pretty good.
     
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  15. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    I would think, from a purely technical standpoint, that if the gun failed to reliably cycle with ACP then that just meant the gun was heavily insulted by the 'little girl' round, and puked from disdain!

    1:15 into that video has made me a believer, and I'm having ALL of my guns rechambered for the round!

    380, 9mm, 10mm, 38spl, .308....

    :D
     
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  16. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I can't wait to see the conversion for the LCP - the compensator will probably be bigger than the gun ;)
     
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  17. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    And weigh more!
     
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  18. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  19. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    question for the Rowland owners using the 1911.
    I haven’t found the answer yet on the website, is the compensator removable from the 460 barrel? If so, how does it remove (threaded, pinned, etc.)?
     
  20. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    Get an XDM, used Glock, or LW slide for the G20?

    What to do...