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460 Rowland Update...

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by 45 for me, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have been shooting handloads through my Glock 41 Lone Wolf conversion.

    e29c50c7-47b2-43a3-b90b-bc4c3e3bcbb9_zpscpokkmju.jpg

    They are 12 grains of Longshot, 230gr Hornady XTP and fresh Starline brass. For the first few times I took it shooting, it worked perfectly (150 rounds). The last couple times I have had some failure to feeds. This can happen from limpwristing it, but I have had it happen with a firm hold. The two modes of failure are the next cartridge is nose down in the mag, holding the slide open. The other mode is not locking fully into battery.

    Clean, lubed gun. I'm wondering if I need to shorten the COL (I err on the high end because it is such a high pressure load 1.265 to 1.270), do a tighter crimp, or a stiffer mag spring.

    Thoughts?

    P.S. The one change was I added a Streamlight TLR-2s to the rail and it was on both times I had problems. I try without it next time.
     
    bolus and misterarman like this.
  2. Spray-n-pray

    Spray-n-pray Battle Ground Moderator Staff Member

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    Have you tried it with any factory ammo?
     
  3. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Good question. No, not a lot of that around, and didn't want to pay the premium, but I should probably pick some up and see if it cycles, and if so, take case and length measurements.
     
    orygun likes this.
  4. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    When I spoke with Clark custom about their 1911 460 rowland kit they mentioned that I may need to try a few different spring strengths to get it to cycle well and they sent a few to try. I dont know about the glock conversion but that may be something to consider

    Also ammo:
    https://www.underwoodammo.com/460-rowland/
     
    orygun and Ura-Ki like this.
  5. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Sub Light Speed Well-Known Member

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    I had a problem like that with my 10 mm conversion 1911, and discovered the spring was a little soft. For 10 mm, they recommend a 23 pound spring, but I had to go to a 25 to get it to cycle correctly! It may be because my slide is a bit heavy and it may also be that it is very tight ( smooth as glass) but tight! I see you have a comp on your's and the slide is longer then oem. The extra inertia will need to be compensated for with a stiffer spring or set of springs! Nice looking rig!
     
  6. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have a 24lb spring right now. I haven't seen anything higher for Glock.
     
  7. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    The guys at 460 Rowland suggest using stronger magazine springs; they sell them on their site.
     
    45 for me likes this.
  8. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip. I will order some.
     
  9. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    That is a good idea. I forgot I got magazines specifically with the upgraded springs for mine
     
  10. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Mine has been doing this on one round out of every mag. I assume its the last round out, I never really watched to see which one.

    IMG_0231_zpse5wbw99v.jpg
     
  11. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    FWIW, I finally got all the parts together to finish by 460R build. Started with a G21 Gen 4, added a Lone Wolf 460R barrel and one of their new Alpha Wolf 460R compensators. I also added a LWD stainless guide rod with Gen 4 adapter and an ISM 24 lb recoil spring. It's rounded out with suppressor sights (I have threaded .45 and 10mm barrels too) and an extended slide release. Ammo and replacement magazine springs are on their way from 460Rowland.com, should be here Friday.

    View attachment 292189

    I also picked up a Kenai Chest Holster for packing it around while I'm out hiking.

    IMG_20160511_113710174_zpsedv5z9sd.jpg

    I doubt I'll have much time to test fire it before I leave for Alaska on the 20th, I'll have to test fire it once I get there. Good stuff!

    IMG_20160511_102951820_zpsi1cfyadc.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  12. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    make sure your suppressor can handle the 460R. I have heard of mfg's warning against full 10mm loads in their cans, this would be worse.
     
  13. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    The suppressor sights are for the 45 and 10mm barrels, not the 460R.
     
    Oregon Quartermaster likes this.
  14. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    My setup is using AGP 20% extra power magazine springs and a 24lb recoil spring. I've run 250 grain bullets 1300-1400 fps and they cycle reliably. An effective compensator helps slow the slide down, which is a must at these levels. A Carver 4 port serves that function for me.
     
  15. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well, progress of a sort. I ordered the 166% mag springs from Rowland. They are stronger than any of the other lone wolf or Wolf springs.

    The rounds are definitely proud in the magazine, and will not stick nose down like before, and it fixed the failure to feed problems, I also get last round hold open every time, but I am getting a new problem. The gun ejects fine, feeds a new round fine, but on occasion fails to go fully into battery by about 1/8" or less. It was clean and well lubed. The feed ramp looks polished. It takes only a slight tap to go into battery.

    I think the next step is a shorter COL (I had been erring on the long side due to the high pressures) and a tighter crimp in case the cartridge lip is hanging it up.

    Thoughts
     
    bolus likes this.
  16. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Does different ammo work? Does it go into battery without ammo in it? If you point the empty gun with no mag upwards at the ceiling and let the slide go into battery very slowly will it go in completely? (some of the things I had to make sure were working when doing my 80% glock kit recently)
     
  17. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    I forgot to post my results.... I took it to the range and put two magazines (26 rounds total) through it. I used Johnny's Defense against large and dangerous game from 460Rowland.com along with factory Glock magazines upgraded with springs from the same company. On both magazines the first 6 rounds ran fine, followed by 2-3 FTF's (next round fed only halfway into the chamber before getting stuck at an angle), with the last few rounds feeding just fine. I don't have a lot more ammo to use to continue testing, but I might buy some more ammo later in the summer to see if I can get things going in a more consistent manner.

    FWIW, using the 460R barrel, heavy spring and compensator to fire 45 ACP turns the gun into a single-shot handgun. As expected.
     
  18. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Adjustments to COL and crimp don't seem to be a factor. I made up some dummy rounds and hand cycled to try and find where it is holding up. The resistance seems to be at the very end of the cycle. The round is essentially chambered, and the back of the case is sliding up the breach face the last little bit to align the round.

    If I have a (dummy) round in battery, pull the slide back 3/8" and release, it usually will not go back fully into battery, where as on my 10mm glock, it usually will. So there seems to be some extra resistance there. I popped off the extractor, and checked the spings, firing pin safety etc. and they seem in good shape and functioning correctly. I did notice this

    Photo Jul 23, 6 55 52 PM.jpg

    That smear accross the OLF of wolf is not dirt, but a metal on metal scrape. If you look at the ejector, you can see similar wear. The ejector does look a little proud, and has to be pressed down to slide the slide back on to the gun.

    Should I file down the ejector, bend it down, or do we think there is another issue?
     
  19. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    My initial thought would be to file down the ejector, as it's a cheap part that's easy to replace. Maybe file it down until it clears the slide, then polish it up to remove the file marks and retest.
     
  20. 45 for me

    45 for me Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does work empty, slow, vertical. But I do think you are onto something with gun itself rather than the ammo.