Poll: .44 Magnum viable self-defense cartridge, yea or nay?

[Alexx1401]

Most people can't "manage" any handgun.

A sadly large percentage of "professionals" seem to be unable to manage their handgun when the crap really starts. Look how many LEO shootings happen at fairly close range where a hail of rounds go off and the dobad is either not hit at all or only a couple rounds land in them. Often when I watch these all I can think of is where in the hell are all those rounds going?

 

[Spitpatch]

Thats a bunch of crap. You are projecting YOURE inability to manage the caliber.

But I have successfully avoided projecting an eighth grade expression of dismissal, accompanied by poor spelling emphasized in block letters.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's a powerful weapon, not a magic talisman. With the right shooter and ammunition it's a game changer, same with any gun. The fundamentals of shooting apply to all.

 

[CLT65]

Because they still have to be able to hit what they shoot "at". I have lost track of how many people who "told me" how good they shot that when we got to the range could not stay on paper at 30ft. This is paper that is not moving and not shooting back. Almost every time I go to the range I am a member of I see people who have trouble staying on paper even at 20ft.An AMAZING number of people seem to buy a gun, take it out to shoot, when they can't hit paper just take it home and expect it to "save them".

Very true. My experience has also been that most people cannot shoot a handgun very well at all, at least not without practice.

The last few friends I've shot with proved this to me. Two of them were "gun guys" - older guys who have owned and been around guns most of their lives, but hadn't really shot or practiced much in recent years, maybe hadn't practiced seriously ever. A lot of "gun guys" are like that; they have cool guns but aren't terribly serious about knowing how to use them. Anyhow, both of these guys were quite embarrassed that they couldn't hit the target. The one range trip, one guy wasn't too happy that my ten year old daughter easily out-shot him. Nothing against either one of them; they just hadn't had practice.

On another range trip, another friend was embarrassed that I out-shot him, considering he's a senior officer in a large agency. Gotta give him credit though; the next time we went to the range he had improved significantly. He practiced!

I also know two guys who can shoot a .44 Magnum effectively: myself and a good friend of mine who carries his every day and has shot a lot of animals with it, including bear at close distance. He told one story of a big, very angry bear dropping at his feet. I have no doubt that he is proficient his his old Model 29.

Myself on the other hand, I don't know how I would handle a self-defense situation. I hope and pray to never find myself in one. I can hit whatever I aim at with mine, quickly and repeatedly, at any reasonable distance, but I know very well that proficiency at the range does not translate into proficiency under stress. I honestly would much rather have my CZ75 9mm over my model 29 .44 mag in a stressful situation, any day, unless of course it was a bear.

 

[gclarkso]

WWED?

What would Elmer do?

 

[Spitpatch]

WWED?

What would Elmer do?

Elmer knew (as did Hickock and Earp) that marksmanship applied to any serious situation, including smacking a Muley at 600 yards with his .44.

 

[OldBroad44]

...
There is absolutely no reason than anyone who is not a total nancy should not be able to manage a accurate shot with a 44 magnum.

Sure there is. For starters, I think many men confuse the power of their firearms with their masculinity. They think that, as @wired flippantly suggests, shooting a .44 mag is associated with manhood or virility. So they start carrying and occasionally shooting .44mag long before they have even mastered .357mag, .38, or even .22.

Second, many revolver shooters do all their practice in single action. But SD is usually double action. You need to have practiced DA to be any good with it.

Third, SD may require you fire one handed with either hand, as one arm/hand may already be compromised. The bear, cougar, or dog may be gnawing on it or the bad guy may have already broken it in a surprise attack. Many people practice only with both hands and an optimal stance. What if a home invader was at my bedroom door before I heard him? Then I would need to grab my firearm with my right hand and fire right handed supporting myself with my left hand/arm. I've actually practiced that a good bit using laser cartridges.

Finally, SD may require more than one shot. In which case the best caliber and choice of ammo for SD, even with people who are good at shooting targets with a .44, needs to be one that allows multiple shots, with either hand, with fast recovery between shots. For most people, this won't be a .44mag loaded with full-house loads at 1100-1200 ft. lbs, the most common range for over-the-counter .44mag. ammo. For me, the upper limit for SD is 1000 ft lbs. assuming a full size heavy gun. Above that I need two hands on the gun, so full-house loads are strictly for hunting, not SD or standard woods carry. Many people are relatively oblivious to ammo specs, and get ammo they can't handle for SD even though they might be able to handle a lower power .44mag load for SD. Garrett's .44mag 310gr Defender, specifically designed for SD against all bears, runs 833 ft. lbs. from a 7.5" barrel.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

www.garrettcartridges.com

That actually overlaps with Buffalo Boar's .357mag 180gr Heavy Outdoorsman in ft. lbs. but with a much fatter heavier bullet. Winchester produces a 44mag 210gr Defense load at 729 ft. lbs. Presumably for SD against people, as a jhp isn't recommended for SD against bears.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Sure there is. For starters, I think many men confuse the power of their firearms with their masculinity. They think that, as @wired flippantly suggests, shooting a .44 mag is associated with manhood or virility. So they start carrying and occasionally shooting .44mag long before they have even mastered .357mag, .38, or even .22.

Second, many revolver shooters do all their practice in single action. But SD is usually double action. You need to have practiced DA to be any good with it.

Third, SD may require you fire one handed with either hand, as one arm/hand may already be compromised. The bear, cougar, or dog may be gnawing on it or the bad guy may have already broken it in a surprise attack. Many people practice only with both hands and an optimal stance. What if a home invader was at my bedroom door before I heard him? Then I would need to grab my firearm with my right hand and fire right handed supporting myself with my left hand/arm. I've actually practiced that a good bit using laser cartridges.

Finally, SD may require more than one shot. In which case the best caliber and choice of ammo for SD, even with people who are good at shooting targets with a .44, needs to be one that allows multiple shots, with either hand, with fast recovery between shots. For most people, this won't be a .44mag loaded with full-house loads at 1100-1200 ft. lbs, the most common range for over-the-counter .44mag. ammo. For me, the upper limit for SD is 1000 ft lbs. assuming a full size heavy gun. Above that I need two hands on the gun, so full-house loads are strictly for hunting, not SD or standard woods carry. Many people are relatively oblivious to ammo specs, and get ammo they can't handle for SD even though they might be able to handle a lower power .44mag load for SD. Garrett's .44mag 310gr Defender, specifically designed for SD against all bears, runs 833 ft. lbs. from a 7.5" barrel.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

www.garrettcartridges.com

That actually overlaps with Buffalo Boar's .357mag 180gr Heavy Outdoorsman in ft. lbs. but with a much fatter heavier bullet. Winchester produces a 44mag 210gr Defense load at 729 ft. lbs. Presumably for SD against people, as a jhp isn't recommended for SD against bears.

Indeed. I'm an ol PPC etc. shooter. Master class shooting possibles (max score decided by X's) out to 50 yards. DA revolvers are shot DA always all the time, for me, to include in the field at small targets at relatively long range.

 

[Spitpatch]

Sure there is. For starters, I think many men confuse the power of their firearms with their masculinity. They think that, as @wired flippantly suggests, shooting a .44 mag is associated with manhood or virility. So they start carrying and occasionally shooting .44mag long before they have even mastered .357mag, .38, or even .22.

Far better expressed than my effort, and the level of disturbance exhibited by our esteemed colleague I suspected might be related to precisely such confusion. I'm glad it wasn't me that came right out and said it, though.

A skilled shooter with a .44 Magnum, confident in his (or her) unusual abilities would have been nonplussed and unthreatened by any of this discussion, and in agreement with the lion's share of it.

@CLT65 posted an excellent example of this, dropping the ball only briefly when he touted himself as one of two good .44 shooters he knows. Based on that post, I am inclined to believe him. But being a good shot should be left for others to say.

 

[Alexx1401]

Very true. My experience has also been that most people cannot shoot a handgun very well at all, at least not without practice.

The last few friends I've shot with proved this to me. Two of them were "gun guys" - older guys who have owned and been around guns most of their lives, but hadn't really shot or practiced much in recent years, maybe hadn't practiced seriously ever. A lot of "gun guys" are like that; they have cool guns but aren't terribly serious about knowing how to use them. Anyhow, both of these guys were quite embarrassed that they couldn't hit the target. The one range trip, one guy wasn't too happy that my ten year old daughter easily out-shot him. Nothing against either one of them; they just hadn't had practice.

On another range trip, another friend was embarrassed that I out-shot him, considering he's a senior officer in a large agency. Gotta give him credit though; the next time we went to the range he had improved significantly. He practiced!

I also know two guys who can shoot a .44 Magnum effectively: myself and a good friend of mine who carries his every day and has shot a lot of animals with it, including bear at close distance. He told one story of a big, very angry bear dropping at his feet. I have no doubt that he is proficient his his old Model 29.

Myself on the other hand, I don't know how I would handle a self-defense situation. I hope and pray to never find myself in one. I can hit whatever I aim at with mine, quickly and repeatedly, at any reasonable distance, but I know very well that proficiency at the range does not translate into proficiency under stress. I honestly would much rather have my CZ75 9mm over my model 29 .44 mag in a stressful situation, any day, unless of course it was a bear.

I have LONG ago learned shooting is a skill like any skill. Some people, who make me green, are just great almost from the start. I have watched a few who its like a magic show what they can do. I have burned train car loads of ammo over my life and I will NEVER be like some of these guys. Never having been a wheel gun guy I don't play with them a lot. I have had a couple Mod 29's that given what they cost now I wish I had kept one.

Now when I had one I did try doing double taps with them and could get "fairly" good with a lot of ammo burned. So if I really wanted to stick with it I "could" get good enough. Sure as hell would NEVER carry one. Many seem to keep bringing that up when the question did not say anything about CC with one of these cannons. Bottom line still the same. FAR more important to be able to hit what you shoot at than caliber. Wife is VERY recoil sensitive. For around the home she has a full size hand gun packing 18 rounds of +P 9mm that she can and will shoot along with a PCC loaded with same. She will NOT carry this. So for a good while her EDC has been a little .22. I wish she would carry larger but, this she loves to shoot and will carry. So again bottom line, any gun you have beats the better gun at home, and she can hit what she shoots at with it.

 

[Alexx1401]

Far better expressed than my effort, and the level of disturbance exhibited by our esteemed colleague I suspected might be related to precisely such confusion. I'm glad it wasn't me that came right out and said it, though.

A skilled shooter with a .44 Magnum, confident in his (or her) unusual abilities would have been nonplussed and unthreatened by any of this discussion, and in agreement with the lion's share of it.

@CLT65 posted an excellent example of this, dropping the ball only briefly when he touted himself as one of two good .44 shooters he knows. Based on that post, I am inclined to believe him. But being a good shot should be left for others to say.

When that movie hit and Mod 29's became the "thing to have" I watched several for years like this. Got their hands on a Mod29 and seldom ever shot it. When they did you could see why. They could not hit anything with it but boy could they brag about how they had a "man's gun". They would openly make fun of anything smaller.
Does not mean that some are not VERY damn good with one of these cannons. For those who are why not use it for defense. Not much chance some dope head is going to keep trying to kill them after they take one or two rounds from that cannon.

 

[Spitpatch]

 

[CLT65]

@CLT65 posted an excellent example of this, dropping the ball only briefly when he touted himself as one of two good .44 shooters he knows. Based on that post, I am inclined to believe him. But being a good shot should be left for others to say.

You're absolutely right, and I'm not one to toot my own horn. I didn't mean to say that I'm any kind of fantastic shot with a .44, or anything else for that matter, just that I can handle it effectively due to lots of practice over the last 30+ years. In the last decade or so I've trained myself to shoot DA revolvers in double-action only, and I feel I've gotten pretty good at it. My point is only that I'm confident with my Model 29s, not that I'm anything special. I also don't shoot with a lot of other people, and I've never shot in competition.

There was an elderly guy that I used to see at the range quite a bit. Bernie was his name, haven't seen him around in a few years. I think he was a past club president or something, really nice guy, and for a guy in his 80s, he could really shoot. I shot with him a few times, and he once told me that I really should get into competition because I was one of the best handgun shots he'd seen at the range. I felt that was pretty high praise, coming from him. I'm not under any illusions though; I know there are plenty of folks out there who can out-shoot me any day of the week, easily. I think I'm pretty good for an average guy, but I'll never be top tier. Especially when it comes to speed- the guys who do those run-and-gun games, they're way beyond me.

My friend who uses his for work though, has proved himself many times over. We don't shoot together very often anymore, but being as his revolver is a tool that he uses daily in his line of work, and has relied on in serious situations to protect either his own life or the lives of his dogs, I think it's safe to say that he's pretty darn proficient. Coincidentally, I sold him that gun over 20 years ago. It's a lot more worn looking than any of mine, but it's also seen a lot more use.

 

[OldBroad44]

@Spitpatch --I think interest in guns and ability to shoot them well don't necessary correlate, whatever the caliber. Same with cameras. Many people, especially men, are interested in the technical aspects of guns/cameras and shooting. But they may spend little time shooting either. A guy may deem himself a great shot with a .44 mag if he can fire it and hit a large target at 15' without wetting himself. But if he competes or goes deer hunting with his .44 he has bad day or the deer dont cooperate. (@#$% deer!) And a writer who fancies himself a great photographer may find his publisher won't use any of his photos on the book cover. (@#$%publishers!)

Interesting bit of psychology: Males almost always evaluate themselves as better than they are. Females almost always evaluate themselves either accurately or as worse than they are.

 

[echo1]

Myself, when on a solo road trip, I carry a .41 mag Blackhawk and a big loop .41 Henry. When the spousal unit comes with, 2 .357 revolvers & 2 .357 Rossi 92 levers. When chillins are accompanying us, 2 .22 pistols or revolvers. I have 9s and .45s but only use them in deer camp. PAX

 

[dangerranger60]

I marked 'yes with the right load.....'
I personally would not choose it, but if its what I had in hand....
My only 44 mag has a 9" barrel so not much of a SD gun. With its length and weight, it fills a gap between rifle and EDC.
Even in a shorter gun I would be hard pressed to shoot it well one handed, or from my off hand.
Daryl Bolk is about the only officer I know that has carried one on duty. He wrote about it in several articles.
To the question of "Would You?" If I had a shovel in my hand when I needed to defend myself, I would defend with a shovel! DR

 

[Certaindeaf]

@Spitguns--I think interest in guns and ability to shoot them well don't necessary correlate, whatever the caliber. Same with cameras. Many people, especially men, are interested in the technical aspects of guns/cameras and shooting. But they may spend little time shooting either. A guy may deem himself a great shot with a .44 mag if he can fire it and hit a large target at 15' without wetting himself. But if he competes or goes deer hunting with his .44 he has bad day or the deer dont cooperate. (@#$% deer!) And a writer who fancies himself a great photographer may find his publisher won't use any of his photos on the book cover. (@#$%publishers!)

Interesting bit of psychology: Males almost always evaluate themselves as better than they are. Females almost always evaluate themselves either accurately or as worse than they are.

I evaluate you as the best.
Oh and a "spit patch" is for muzzle loading.. if one doesn't have a more suitable lube/solvent, spit is often used on the patch to ease ramming the ball and reduce fouling.

 

[OldBroad44]

I evaluate you as the best.
Oh and a "spit patch" is for muzzle loading.. if one doesn't have a more suitable lube/solvent, spit is often used on the patch to ease ramming the ball and reduce fouling.

Thanks for the friendly words and the info about spit patches and muzzle loading @Certaindeaf . That reference was way over my head. As for my self evaluation as a shooter...I wisely never tried to compete. Even in my prime, my corrected vision was nowhere near what it takes to compete. Could handgun hunt deer though. Now, with 78 year old eyes, I've bought a scope for Thumper, my 9.5" Super Redhawk....

However, the art director for my publisher told me I was the only author they had, of hundreds of book authors who also did photography, whose photos were used on their book covers. However I need to get photos of some new vegetable varieties this year, and I haven't used my camera in a couple of years. And I've forgotten a lot. Will need to take a half day or a day to relearn my camera and remember various old tricks.

 

[CLT65]

Here's one of my favorite 29's, a Lew Horton 3" model from the mid 1980's.

It's like a compact Mack truck. It is fun to shoot, and accurate enough, but still big and heavy, and roars like the cannon it is. It would certainly be effective at self defense if it was all I had. And no, it's not an extension of my masculinity. I'm well past that stage in life.

I actually shoot my 8 3/8" 629 better, due to the longer sight radius, so it usually gets more range time.

 

[OldBroad44]

Here's one of my favorite 29's, a Lew Horton 3" model from the mid 1980's.

It's like a compact Mack truck. It is fun to shoot, and accurate enough, but still big and heavy, and roars like the cannon it is. It would certainly be effective at self defense if it was all I had. And no, it's not an extension of my masculinity. I'm well past that stage in life.

I actually shoot my 8 3/8" 629 better, due to the longer sight radius, so it usually gets more range time.

View attachment 1492401

What kind of holster is that, @CLT65 ?