40mm grenades.....a few questions

[AMProducts]

I asked about display purposes cause the cop said he found one in my house and took pictures, so I was wondering if he could have brought one, like afake look alike and since I cant prove a cop planted evidence I was wondering if it was ok to have them if they were for display and you didnt have any means of firing them. I asked cause I simply don't know this kind of stuff, I stick to my shotgun and my friends 22 for when we go hunting and thats it. I dont know how acurate a manufacturer is wuth their weapon stats, I don't know how easy or hard it is to get these kinds of things, I am a mom who has way more to worry about then grenades n explosives until now

I think the thing that we are confused about is what was your friend prying on that exploded... Do you know? Also, why was he doing it in your house? I should also point out, that there are two charges in 40mm grenades, the launch charge, and the explosive charge. It could reasonably assumed that the launch charge could break your friends finger, and not set off the main charge.

I really don't want you to answer these questions, but I want you to internalize them.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The projectile/"warhead" would remain as evidence and it would be easily ascertained if it was indeed a live/explosive round or not. If there isn't one, there's no real evidence save the condition of the room and the very minor injuries etc. It sounds like they have no real case unless they have an unexploded warhead.
again, I'm no lawyer.. lol, and don't take my word for anything and again, good luck

 

[misplacedtexan]

So, he had a a round and was prying it apart against better judgement.

The only charge in it that would detonate from prying is the propellant (launching) charge. These munitions require a certain amount of rotation at a very high speed to arm that usually works out to ~15 meters of flight from the muzzle of a launching device.

Is there a way he may have set the explosive charge off? Maybe, bubblegum happens. Would you or him be alive in said 12x16 room? Maybe, but you wouldn't be typing, reading this text, listening to court proceedings, breathing on your own, walking, and maybe in a coma. I've seen eyeballs pop, ear drums rupture, and guys go into comas (before finally passing), be put on ventilation because their lungs were destroyed, and worse simply because one went off on the wall behind them.

They are a wartime munition for a reason.

Any idea what color the head of the munition was? Those things are color coded and would tell everyone what you were actually working with.

Granted all the demonstrative work I have pictures of was conducted with a MK19 which shoots those things belted together, it's the same round. Just more destructive as you can fling 15 of them without a problem.

 

[shyshooter]

When all is said and done I would love to share the back story with you. Its pretty crazy that this is even happening. The story gets better......not only does the police report say that my friend was taking apart live 40mm with a screwdriver, but it also says that on the table right next to the supposed 40mm explosion, like inches away, was a live 81mm mortar round........
And yet it didnt go off in the supposed 40mm explosion ......does that seem realistic or logical to any of you?

Like I said the whole thing is crazy and when court is over I will happily share the details.

Oh and I dont have any criminal record of any kind and would never put my kids in jeopardy of losing me so I dont commit crimes, aside from maybe the occasional speeding a little, lol.

 

[AMProducts]

Mk19 fires the high velocity version 40x53mm, normal M203 fires the 40x46. The propelling charges for the 40x53 are several orders of magnitude more powerful. The 40x46 has less powder than most 9mm rounds in the propelling charge.

 

[AMProducts]

When all is said and done I would love to share the back story with you. Its pretty crazy that this is even happening. The story gets better......not only does the police report say that my friend was taking apart live 40mm with a screwdriver, but it also says that on the table right next to the supposed 40mm explosion, like inches away, was a live 81mm mortar round........
And yet it didnt go off in the supposed 40mm explosion ......does that seem realistic or logical to any of you?

Like I said the whole thing is crazy and when court is over I will happily share the details.

Oh and I dont have any criminal record of any kind and would never put my kids in jeopardy of losing me so I dont commit crimes, aside from maybe the occasional speeding a little, lol.

Tell you what, if you got the photos, crop and post them of the ordnance and question, and we can probably ID it.

 

[shyshooter]

They are say we had previously fired, unexploded, not in the firing case/shell gold capped 40mm HE rounds

 

[shyshooter]

Ill get the pics from my lawyer tomorrow when I see him. Thank you guys for all your help n info.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

If this is an effort to conduct a criminal defense investigation, then there is a good argument to be made that professionals should conduct the investigation.
That means hiring a good criminal defense attorney and then that attorney retains a professional legal investigator to gather the facts for the case, which would in turn be protected by attorney-client privilege until presented in Discovery.

To undertake a task of this gravity as an amateur is similar to having somebody with no medical training attempt an appendectomy using kitchen appliances.

Get professionals in on this.

EDIT: I see there is an attorney retained. Good. Now have them get you a professional investigator who will obtain evidence to support the attorney's strategy.

 

[Three Bars]

Perhaps a few words of explanation would go a long way to help your cause when opening a conversation with those you're seeking information from.

If I was not getting any where looking for the info you want, I would try to contact one other source.

There is a writer from "American Hand-gunner" magazine who offers his services to those who need a firearms expert for legal defense issues.
He is a nationally recognized firearms expert, but I don't think explosives are his strong suite, but he may know of someone who is.

His name is: Massad Ayoob, he writes for many gun magazines, including American Hand-gunner, and like I said, he may know someone who can help. (Google his name too)

Good luck.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

There is an Oregon company (IIRC) that is at a lot of the gun shows, the sell either 37mm or 40mm launchers/attachments for the AR style rifle, so M203 etc, and new 'grenades' for use in them.

They're fully legal and use 12ga primers to reload them, you can buy the packs to make them up/reload them, for smoke, firework style etc.

Obviously they're not military 40mm grenades, but it's all the same/similar delivery system, so that would be a source for the actual grenade casing and evidently, a way to have something active (albeit not a full blown grenade)

 

[shyshooter]

Thank you three bars I gave my attorney the info

 

[JackFrost]

This story sounds nutso!! Just sayin! There is a metric "truck ton" of "ordnance" info on the arfcom forum. Blast radius, lethality, types, detailed descriptions etc etc. There is not a cold chance in hades that you would survive the blast of that going off in the confines of a room. The concussion alone would be enough to kill you. What in name of all that is holy would compel anybody to try and dissemble an explosive device that had no training???? That just screams "crazy" or made up... Unless it involves a massive quantity of illicit drugs... Hope you find the answers to your questions.

 

[mkwerx]

Agreed, this story doesn't pass the sniff test in the slightest. An arrest for possession of such devices would make the news papers and at least local TV stations. In researching for the last hour or so on this - I find nothing, not one word about any arrests of this nature from Washington with any details matching up. The closest thing I could find was a 65 year old Spokane man that was nailed for having unregistered MG's and destructive devices stored in a storage unit, or a story about a Bremerton area woman arrested for possession of a bomb described in the article as a field bomb (guessing gopher bomb?) wrapped with gas cannisters - one found in her car and one at her residence.

The only other stories to mention grenades were the arrests of a doctor back east for possession of a number of unregistered grenades that would be used in his legally registered M203 grenade launcher. That story shows how stupid the doc got - he had 110 registered machine guns plus M79 and M203 launchers, and decided to get his grenade supply through less-than-legal channels and now his collection will wind up being destroyed, including a full set of WW2 era MG's... really sad.

But again, not so much as a single sentence about any Washington residents being busted for 40mm grenades (or any grenades) especially after having one go off.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think it's obvious that an antipersonnel/materiel grenade didn't "go off".. it sounds like the primer and or propelling charge did though. It could well still be a live/real HE grenade though.. which is perhaps the issue regarding the law.

 

[shyshooter]

I think the thing that we are confused about is what was your friend prying on that exploded... Do you know? Also, why was he doing it in your house? I should also point out, that there are two charges in 40mm grenades, the launch charge, and the explosive charge. It could reasonably assumed that the launch charge could break your friends finger, and not set off the main charge.

I really don't want you to answer these questions, but I want you to internalize them.

Thats the whole thing there were no 40mm or 81mm or anything in my home besides 556 rounds and shot gun shells

 

[shyshooter]

This story sounds nutso!! Just sayin! There is a metric "truck ton" of "ordnance" info on the arfcom forum. Blast radius, lethality, types, detailed descriptions etc etc. There is not a cold chance in hades that you would survive the blast of that going off in the confines of a room. The concussion alone would be enough to kill you. What in name of all that is holy would compel anybody to try and dissemble an explosive device that had no training???? That just screams "crazy" or made up... Unless it involves a massive quantity of illicit drugs... Hope you find the answers to your questions.

No one tryed to pry 40mm rounds apart....thats the whole piint.....its crazy that we're being charged for something that if it were true woukd have killed or mained us both. ?...that was the whole reason I came here asking questions, so I could prove that the cops story is not just a lie but impossible too.

 

[shyshooter]

Agreed, this story doesn't pass the sniff test in the slightest. An arrest for possession of such devices would make the news papers and at least local TV stations. In researching for the last hour or so on this - I find nothing, not one word about any arrests of this nature from Washington with any details matching up. The closest thing I could find was a 65 year old Spokane man that was nailed for having unregistered MG's and destructive devices stored in a storage unit, or a story about a Bremerton area woman arrested for possession of a bomb described in the article as a field bomb (guessing gopher bomb?) wrapped with gas cannisters - one found in her car and one at her residence.

The only other stories to mention grenades were the arrests of a doctor back east for possession of a number of unregistered grenades that would be used in his legally registered M203 grenade launcher. That story shows how stupid the doc got - he had 110 registered machine guns plus M79 and M203 launchers, and decided to get his grenade supply through less-than-legal channels and now his collection will wind up being destroyed, including a full set of WW2 era MG's... really sad.

But again, not so much as a single sentence about any Washington residents being busted for 40mm grenades (or any grenades) especially after having one go off.

Perhaps you dont know how to search well, cause I can find the article on the tacoma news tribune site with no problem. It mentions 40mm and 81mm and in the article it says my friend was taking apart a 20mm when it went off in his hand, but the report the police/prosecutor fiked with the court says my friend was taking apart a 40mm with a screwdriver when it went off in his hand.

why on earth would I make this bubblegum up.......seriously....the story in insane and unbelievable to me and im living through this nightmare right now, so if you dont have anything useful to say then bug off......please

 

[Squidly]

It sounds like a training round to me.. I stupidly took apart a 12ga round when I was a kid (in a bad and stupid way) and about lost my pinky finger by just the primer alone.
I don't think it's against the law to own and use, in a safe environment, 40mm training rounds unless you're a felon or something. I could be wrong though.
good luck

Yeah, I can't see anyone living through a live HE round. After all, they are designed to kill within a 5 meter radius. At 130 meters you are still picking shrapnel out of your a$$.

 

[40calruler]

add a link if you can find it in the tribune easily. I just went to the tribune home page and came up short of any grenade articles whatsoever that would match up here. Just post the link you say is there and then maybe people might be more open to input and not think it just sounds like a fantasy made up to rile up gun owners. You say why would you make it up and I say people make up some crazy damn stuff. Post the link since you seem to have access.