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40 SW case failure

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by hollowbase, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. hollowbase

    hollowbase Oregon Member

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    I was shooting my Browning .40 S&W over the chrono last week and had a case failure. The head of the case was pulled from the case walls and I found it on the ground. The slide cycled and stripped a new round from the magazine but it obviously couldn't chamber. There wasn't any damage to the Browning and I was able to keep shooting. I was shooting 180 Gr Laser Cast and 5.5 Gr. Unique. What's interesting is we were shooting again on Sat and the same thing happened in a Beretta 96FS only this time the tip of the extractor was broken and lodged between the extractor and the slide. Same load as before. The brass was PMC that I had picked up at a gun show in the Expo Center. I guess I'm looking for some input on the PMC brass. Has anybody encountered this issue?
     
  2. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    Probably was shot out of glocks previously...

    Look at your remaining brass to see if it has the rectangular glock firing pin mark
     
  3. Grommit327

    Grommit327 Buckley Active Member

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    I've shot a lot of reloaded PMC .40 and never had an issue. A lot of .40 reloads period some mild some hot and no issues. Were they the same batch of reloads?
     
  4. hollowbase

    hollowbase Oregon Member

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    This stuff was already deprimed and cleaned so no primers to look at. I didn't see any problems when I inspected them.
     
  5. hollowbase

    hollowbase Oregon Member

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    These were both loaded with same lot powder and primers and the bullets were from the same box but they were loaded at different times. I've started inspecting the remaining cases including looking in the inside with a bore light and I've found several so far that have a very abrupt transition from the case head to the case wall, it's almost like a 90 degree angle. It looks like there's less material there. My plan is to go through the entire batch and seperate out any of those and section a few of them as well as some of the others. I'm very reluctant to load any more of them, brass is a lot cheaper to replace than a Browning.
     
  6. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    The older generation glocks had a badly unsupported area of the cartridge... This improved with the later generations...

    These were likely police range pickup brass... And some police departments still have earlier generation glocks...

    This is not a glock bashing statement, just repeating established fact..
    Check for a bulge at the base of the brass...

    http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1561

    I think the wrinkle is what you are referring to
     
  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    It strikes me this probably was not a glock related issue, and was more likely a result of defectively produced, or excessively used brass. Your loads don't seem excessive, but typically for a pistol cartridge there is at least a .050" radius where the case head meets the case web, and also .40 brass usually has a rather abrupt web compared to other cartridges such as 9mm or .45. Even then, it seems there is more that meets the eye here...
     
  8. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    The whole Notion of it being "glock" as the problem child, is due to lack of knowledge on the subject.

    ANYONE who uses the Modified Browning system, AKA. the Swinging-Link type action; has an unsupported chamber. The question becomes "HOW" un-supported. Glock has LESS support than some, more than others. As long as your components are WITHIN spec, AND so are your PRESSURES; there is no issue regardless of pistol maker.

    The Beretta 96 does NOT use this type of action, so the fact that you had the same separation issue in it; tells you that something else is wrong. As AMP said, there is something else( or several things) at play here. Either your powder has aged badly, and/or the cases have an issue. Possibly a bad batch, or have been horribly overloaded previously.
     
  9. noylj

    noylj high desert Active Member

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    Response #5 indicated the problem is bad brass--insufficient web transition area.
    Definitely inspect and scrap all such brass. Perhaps you can cut a case down and photograph the web and compare to another case. This may be information worth getting out to the "public."
    My question is along the line of: if you had one failure with a reload, why did you go back to shooting it?
     
  10. hollowbase

    hollowbase Oregon Member

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    In looking back on it now, it probably wasn't the correct course of action, especially in light of the second failure several days later. I've nearly completed inspecting the inside of the cases and I've found at least 10% that I consider suspect. I will be sectioning some and taking pics. This weekend I'll have to go through my loaded ammo and pull out the PMC's as well as go through the fired cases from the last two outings. I'll post the pics when I get them.
     
  11. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    :thumbup:probably glock related ahaha.
     
  12. hollowbase

    hollowbase Oregon Member

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    I've got some pics of the bad PMC cases, but I'm not sure how to attach them. Can someone help me out?
     
  13. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    in the editor window there's a little button that says "attach picture" click on that.
     
  14. Wood Worker

    Wood Worker Linn County Oregon Active Member

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    I have had several problems with PMC brass and case head separation in the past, and now I judiciously crush every piece of PMC 40sw brass that happens to come across my reloading bench.
     
  15. bballer182

    bballer182 Molalla Active Member

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    Yeah probably glock problem. The tens, possibly hundreds-of-thousands of glocks that are serving our country should be melted down and traded for something of higher quality like Hi Point...
     
  16. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    Hey now, Hi Points are good firearms.
     
  17. giddyupgo55

    giddyupgo55 Vernonia Active Member

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    I may be wrong, but isn't PMC Koren ? If so I have heard of this happening before with new ammo. As far as Glocks go, in all the years I've own my 23 ( for those that don't know is a 40 ) I've had one problem and I fixed it when I swaped out the barrel and went with Lone Wolf.
     
  18. Kentucky Windage

    Kentucky Windage WA State Active Member

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    It sure is.

    I've gotten Federal cases where cartridges didn't have primers though.
     
  19. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Kind of a Yes and No answer here. The PMC Corporation is a Korean company but they also own PMX Precision Metals which is their major supplier of the brass alloy for their cases. PMC is essentially the "Lake City" of Korea and ships military ammo all over the world.

    Actually, I have had great luck with their cases in 9mm and 5.56/.223. If I had to pick a "problem case" for pistol calibers it would most likely be Federals. They seem to start leaking through the primers (loose pocket) sooner than most.
     
  20. bballer182

    bballer182 Molalla Active Member

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    I too like the 223/5.56 PMC, haven't really formed an opinion on the PMC 40s yet. I've loaded and shot a few thousand .40 for my 3rd gen 22 and 23 and haven't had any failures in any casings yet. I'm just glad there aren't any military crimps or sealants in any of the range pickups I find. :D