4 volunteer firefighters shot, 2 dead, in apparent 'trap'

[gearheadbill]

There will be more and more of these convenient incidents now. One after after until the sheep all cry out 'enough is enough'.

Those that believe a ban or worse is not coming need to wake up.

A lot of this, not all, is orchestrated.

You, sir, are 100% correct in this. Peace and safety at any price. The forces at work to tear us apart as a nation and a people are upping the ante. This is just the beginning. As they say in the Navy, 'stand by for heavy rolls'.

 

[gearheadbill]

Why is EVERYTHING a conspiracy to you? I guess if that's the way you have to deal with this stuff then OK but if you really believe what you say then I have some concerns about your mental health.

Some very naive people on this board. There is EVIL in this world and its got YOU in its sights.

 

[mortar maggot]

Let's remember the dead firefighters, these guys were volunteers who went to put out a house that was on fire and were shot by a crazy nutcase convicted felon. These FF's are not being paid much if anything at all, and they were killed trying to help thier community.

A murderer who used a hammer to bash his own grandmothers skull in goes to prison for 17 years, then gets out and goes on another killing spree, not surprised.

The media has yet to identify the gun used so my guess is that it is a bolt action rifle. If it was a semi-auto the media would have been all over it.

On Edit: saw the news Bushmaster AR15, "the same AW as used in the Sandy Hook Massacare."

 

[HahnsXD]

Read in a couple articles now it was a Bushmaster AR. Why is it always Bushmasters?

 

[timac]

Read in a couple articles now it was a Bushmaster AR. Why is it always Bushmasters?

Their cheap and its what can be given to the assailant, by instigators. They can be found in any Walmart, sporting goods store, to show they're easily obtainable.

 

[MarkAd]

The death penalty is not a deterrent. It is a way to remove vile evil persons from being able to do more harm on a permanet basis.

 

[19 Adam]

Even without the death penalty the justice system in most states, New York in particular, has been taken over by the ultra-liberal. Convicted felons are not serving full sentences and the mentally ill are being "mainstreamed" back into society even after bludgeoning relatives to death with hammers.

In Oregon we used to have places to take those in crisis or that were a danger to themselves or others. Now they may spend a few hours in an emergency room before they are given the name of a case worker and sent out the door. Wish we still had the full sized State Hospital in Salem and the Dammasch State Hospital in Wilsonville. Maybe if these killings by the mentally ill continue we can get the state of the art Wapato Facility/Jail opened as a mental health center.

 

[4Freedom]

I'm for a rushed death penalty, where they are judged by a jury, according to our laws, and, if found guilty, they are hung the next day. I am also for the reinstatement of the chain gang and prison slave labor camps. Prison is not a vacation, it is punishment for a crime. Why should my tax money pay for some guy to kick back ,eat good food, lift weights, watch movies, have free health care and lodging and not contribute anything back? Put them to work and make the experience not enjoyable!! Many criminals actually become more hardened criminals while locked up in the pen!

 

[Grunwald]

I'm for a rushed death penalty, where they are judged by a jury, according to our laws, and, if found guilty, they are hung the next day. I am also for the reinstatement of the chain gang and prison slave labor camps. Prison is not a vacation, it is punishment for a crime. Why should my tax money pay for some guy to kick back ,eat good food, lift weights, watch movies, have free health care and lodging and not contribute anything back? Put them to work and make the experience not enjoyable!! Many criminals actually become more hardened criminals while locked up in the pen!

Agreed. I'd take it step further. I would treat attempted murder same as murder. Just because someone is a failure in their attemp to kill a fellow man does not mean they deserve a break for it.
For regular criminals I would have much shorter sentences but make the experience such that they would never want to return. No tv, no books, newspapers or magazines. No contact with the outside world. No socialising with other prisoners. Soundproof, private cells where you're locked up unless you're doing hard labor. I would even try to figure out how to do that in isolation.

 

[Dave Workman]

A killer was released and killed again in New York state
A killer was released and allegedly killed again in Bellevue, WA.

Bellevue bar shooting exemplifies system breakdown

<broken link removed>

 

[gearheadbill]

I have often thought that we should take over some large offshore island (Madagascar comes to mind) or other god-forsaken place like Afghanistan, put ALL the worlds violent offenders on it, build a BIG fence around it. The last one standing wins a .45 to the head.

 

[Stomper]

I guess you're not "pussified", while I am. I am against death penalty.

I also oppose the death penalty. The government cannot be trusted with the ability to execute people.

BTW: It actually costs more to execute a person than it does to keep them alive and in prison for the rest of their life, you'd be paying more in taxes if the state executed people more often.

I got to thinking about these two posts today...

In order for you two not to be hypocrites, you would have to give up your CHL's (if you have them) and never defend your (or anyone else's) life with deadly force under ANY AND ALL circumstances.

The only reason it "cost more" to execute rather than life w/o parole is for all the appeals, the cable TV, organ transplants to keep them alive until execution day, etc.

The death penalty is not a deterrent. It is a way to remove vile evil persons from being able to do more harm on a permanet basis.

^^^This^^^

Carrying out the death penalty is nothing more than the state using deadly force to protect the lives of the citizenry... the details of the OP are case in point.

 

[HahnsXD]

I'm for a rushed death penalty, where they are judged by a jury, according to our laws, and, if found guilty, they are hung the next day.

Do you know how many innocent people would have been executed if this was the case?

I got to thinking about these two posts today...

In order for you two not to be hypocrites, you would have to give up your CHL's (if you have them) and never defend your (or anyone else's) life with deadly force under ANY AND ALL circumstances.

It's not hypocritical at all. 95% of the people who cry about the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong are the same people who have no problem giving the government power to kill it's citizens. That's hypocritical. Keep them locked up for life, let them use that time to prove their innocence, if they can. Executing innocent people is not only wrong, once it happens, nobody is looking for the real killer who's still free.

Defending yourself from immediate harm is a fundamental right. When someone is trying to harm you, there is no question of guilt.

If there was a way to absolutely guarantee the person was guilty (or if they freely admit it), I'd have no problem with it, but we can't, so we shouldn't be giving the government that power.

 

[fd15k]

I got to thinking about these two posts today...

In order for you two not to be hypocrites, you would have to give up your CHL's (if you have them) and never defend your (or anyone else's) life with deadly force under ANY AND ALL circumstances.

I am against death penalty, not against use of deadly force in self-defense. There are a few reasons why I am against death penalty, but I doubt you are interested to know

 

[rsmccsman]

The shooter was already a convicted murderer! Convicted felons are already prohibited from owning Guns, gun control did nothing to stop him from obtaining a prohibited weapon because criminals do not obey the law anyway. So what is the point of banning guns if we are just going to release the killers to kill again. If he was on Parole where was the PO doing a home visit to find the gun and arrest him for violation of his Parole? Failure to enforce existing laws does not justify passing new laws to disarm law abiding people.

 

[Stomper]

I am against death penalty, not against use of deadly force in self-defense. There are a few reasons why I am against death penalty, but I doubt you are interested to know

Why would you a$$-u-me that?

Of course I'm interested in hearing your thought proceses on this, even IF I disagree with the final conclusion. At least you have proven capable of more than "just because" arguments.

 

[fd15k]

Why would you a$$-u-me that?

Of course I'm interested in hearing your thought proceses on this, even IF I disagree with the final conclusion. At least you have proven capable of more than "just because" arguments.

Fair enough. My main reason to oppose death penalty are some practical implications. It was mentioned earlier that it costs a ton of money to execute people. Well, that's only a drop in the sea. It costs a ton
of money for us to incarcerate people in general, which probably would be an argument in favor of speedy execution of those sentenced to death. My take is that we shouldn't pay anything to incarcerate people.
Instead there should be enough labor provided for the prisoners that they can support themselves, and contribute something back to the society. I believe it was labor unions that lobbied against prisoner
labor in many states in the past, which were concerned about cheap force competing with them. That role is now taken by China, there shouldn't be much opposition any longer

Now, when it comes to guys on the death row, it's just pointless to execute them. One, they are already locked up (for life in this case), and executing them would not repair the damage they have caused.
Say some guy kills an entire family, leaving some kids without their parents. Not only the society lost some tax payers, but also now the society has this extra weight to carry in form of these kids.
I say have the guy who caused the damage work his entire life if not to repair the damage, then at least soften it.

Obviously with profitable prisoner labor there is danger of abuse. Supposedly there already have been cases where judges committed juveniles to certain facilities because they had some kickbacks.
Well, any good thing can be abused, and should be supervised. There is just no way around it.

I also have some moral objections to the death penalty. One was also mentioned in this thread, is that there have been innocent people executed. But I also think nobody really deserves to die.
It is one thing when you employ deadly force to prevent immediate harm, it's a different thing to execute somebody who poses no immediate danger to anybody. I think a lot of that action is driven
by revenge, a pleasure killing.

 

[mattdomes]

I have a new solution.. Execute all murderers.. It will save prison space, reduce crime (after they are released) and save the taxpayers a lot of money.

just like Texas does

 

[mkwerx]

The death penalty only costs so damn much because we give them far, far too many appeals, and house them far too long before killing them. You get convicted of a capital offense? You get one appeal. If you're not found not guilty upon appeal, I'm sorry, go to the head of the line for offing. Sentence to be carried out within 30 days if the conviction is upheld. There is no point in housing these people any longer than that. I'd also go so far as to remove the power of a governor to stay the execution of someone sentenced to death - it is the will of the people of that state that the death penalty be enacted - someone like John Kitzhaber should NOT have the ability, willy nilly, to decide "not on my watch" when the people - the same ones who elected him, have said in numerous elections "we want convicted killers to die".

Remove these people from the gene pool permanently. Even if it doesn't deter crime committed by someone else - you have removed one more known murderer from the population. He can never kill again once he's dead. I would also add violent rapists, and those convicted of attempted murder to the list of capital offenses. Start removing these people and you won't have the problems with warehousing them only to turn them free on the populace to commit more violent crimes.

We could use the money saved to reopen and add new state mental health facilities to house and treat people before THEY wind up going on murder sprees, or kill their loved ones, etc. Society wins all around.

 

[fd15k]

Remove these people from the gene pool permanently. Even if it doesn't deter crime committed by someone else - you have removed one more known murderer from the population. He can never kill again once he's dead. I would also add violent rapists, and those convicted of attempted murder to the list of capital offenses. Start removing these people and you won't have the problems with warehousing them only to turn them free on the populace to commit more violent crimes.

Also imbeciles, homosexuals, jews, etc... Sounds familiar