380 test

Liberty97045 · Mar 17, 2015

https://www.full30.com/video/913d49f717a54171edcbd115c27efe5d

chemist · Mar 18, 2015

No, the "temporary and permanent wound cavity" are not increased by that penetrator round, only the temporary cavity is. He's clearly mistaken, at two minutes into the video. You can read Martin Fackler like I did if you need to understand why temp cavity has nothing to do with wound channel.

It is true that the big issue with .380 is penetration depth, which means in practice the round has to stay together. Any bonded JHP is going to give you the weight retention you need to get that depth.

As far as 7-8" not being enough, I'm surprised that anybody still drinks that kool-aid from the FBI HWFE document. For pete's sake, it's one man's opinion, from a long time ago, that's been completely surmounted by a ton of empirical evidence about just how effective the .380 has been in actual practice.

Personally, I think the 9X19 is marginally adequate, so the 9X17 is a bit worse. But I also know that the one in my pocket beats the gun in my sock drawer, and there is a real reason the .380 remains so popular. Those teeny 9X19's are way too punishing to run through an all-day class, and no newly minted CCW is going to be happy with one.

Pandaz3 · Mar 21, 2015

Well I was impressed, I think they are better. I have Underwood with Hornaday XTP 90 Grain right now and the Penetrators are more money, but I'll buy them over the XTP's next time. If it makes me feel better then it is worth it. This is for the backup gun my G-29 has enough pizazz without the Penetrators.

Medic! · Mar 22, 2015

chemist said:
No, the "temporary and permanent wound cavity" are not increased by that penetrator round, only the temporary cavity is. He's clearly mistaken, at two minutes into the video. You can read Martin Fackler like I did if you need to understand why temp cavity has nothing to do with wound channel.

It is true that the big issue with .380 is penetration depth, which means in practice the round has to stay together. Any bonded JHP is going to give you the weight retention you need to get that depth.

As far as 7-8" not being enough, I'm surprised that anybody still drinks that kool-aid from the FBI HWFE document. For pete's sake, it's one man's opinion, from a long time ago, that's been completely surmounted by a ton of empirical evidence about just how effective the .380 has been in actual practice.

Personally, I think the 9X19 is marginally adequate, so the 9X17 is a bit worse. But I also know that the one in my pocket beats the gun in my sock drawer, and there is a real reason the .380 remains so popular. Those teeny 9X19's are way too punishing to run through an all-day class, and no newly minted CCW is going to be happy with one.

If an attacker is holding out a knife, gun, or some other weapon. And you shoot through his forearm. Or hit the weapon. It would be good to have a gun that had more than 7''-8'' penetration.

U201494 · Mar 23, 2015

Or what if your attacker is wearing a couple of shirts and a heavy coat or maybe he's just a fat basturd, then what?

Pandaz3 · Mar 23, 2015

Or if he has a Titanium Skull cap......

albin25 · Mar 24, 2015

"Or what if your attacker is wearing a couple of shirts and a heavy coat or maybe he's just a fat basturd, then what? "

I'd wait for the heavy coated, 2 shirted, fat basturd to waddle closer than 15-20 yards before I shoot him...If he's under 5 yards away I don't think it matters what the caliber is....or, if over 20 yards away, and sooo fat that emptying a mag of 380 won't stop him, I probably would have noticed him sooner and just outrun his fat, over dressed butt.

Of course if I was planning on shooting heavy coated, 2 shirted, fat basturd attackers out of the treetops, I would most certainly recommend a much more powerful round.

pdxjazz · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks Liberty for pointing those out. I have watched a number of videos (all I could find) on that ammo since your original post, and it appears to be an excellent round for the .380, and possibly snub nose .38 specials. I'm actually considering a Glock 42 with that ammo. A little hot for self defense in larger calibers but seems to be a great choice for woods carry. Does some real damage in 10mm (despite only 140gr.) and .44 magnum. Waiting to see a test for the 200gr. 45 ACP.

Pandaz3 · Apr 27, 2015

I think the FBI has revised their standards to include some clothing and 12 inches of penetration minimum to 18 inches. Thankfully I do not expect to come up against zombies, extraterrestrials, or criminals with body armor. Could happen I guess, but I think the passing rounds in the OP's video are 'Good enough' for me.

pdxjazz · Apr 27, 2015

Pandaz3 said:
I think the FBI has revised their standards to include some clothing and 12 inches of penetration minimum to 18 inches. Thankfully I do not expect to come up against zombies, extraterrestrials, or criminals with body armor. Could happen I guess, but I think the passing rounds in the OP's video are 'Good enough' for me.

If you are referencing my post, you need to read it again. Slowly this time.

Pandaz3 · Apr 27, 2015

No I wasn't

pdxjazz · Apr 27, 2015

Okay, then my apology.

Certaindeaf · Apr 27, 2015

Didn't read or click. The .380 out of a small handgun can do an energy dump or do 40" through gelatin. It is what it is.

nitestocker · May 4, 2015

i use buffalo bore 100 gr+P hard cast and there 95 gr+p hp in my kahr p 380 the hard cast goes though 4 one gal milk jugs at once i have not tried the hp rounds

salmonriverjohn · May 4, 2015

I love the little .380 as a pocket carry, and I'd be willing to bet those that claim it "ain't got enough poop man" wouldn't be able to tell me the difference between it and it's bigger brother if on the recieving end.

Quality ammunition is a must with ANY personal defense handgun, and that isn't just the 9mm short, but there's always that "mines bigger" guy out there that will tell you that anything short of a 454 is a waist of time,, we've all met em.

bzltyr · May 4, 2015

In past, it was said 9mm was a bubblegum round. Todays technology has vastly improved in all rounds. A 22 is just as good.
Remember.....Placement.....if you aint hitting, what good is any round....