32 Guns stolen 8-22 Bridgeport WA. Reward offered

[Provincial]

Another way thieves find out about valuables is from workmen who visit the house to do repairs or remodels. Sometimes the perp is the workman, and other times he passes the information on and, knowing when the theft will take place, has a good alibi set up.

 

[hermannr]

Our home in Germany was secure. When it was locked up nothing short of a tank could make entry. Meter thick concrete walls, solid steel exterior doors with U channel set in the concrete for door jambs, rolladen shutters on all the windows and patio door. Your common thief could not enter that house, the local Police could not enter unless you invited them...like I said, it would take a tank..nothing less.

When your house is secure, you can consider your possessions secure. HOWEVER! there is not one house in the US that is built like European houses, and when you lock you door, you are just asking for someone to damage your house when you lock it up. The door is locked? Whoever wants in will kick the door in by breaking that soft wood door jam. You have a gun safe? (or any other type of safe) if the intruder wants it they will either break in to it, or just steal the safe too.

Anyone of you that thinks not owning a gun safe is negligent, well you can start by living in a wooden house, with doors set in a wooden frame, with unprotected glass windows. That is just as "negligent" if that is what you want to call this victim. And you do not even know that the victim of this theft did not have these weapons locked up now...do you? If a thief wants something bad enough, they will find a way to obtain whatever they desire.

 

[BoonDocks36]

O..... SNIPPED TO .... When it was locked up nothing short of a tank could make entry. And you do not even know that the victim of this theft did not have these weapons locked up now...do you? If a thief wants something bad enough, they will find a way to obtain whatever they desire.

I have lived in Germany, he is correct, failed to mention though, German Locks make American "Standard House" locks look like bubblegum.

The First thing I did, in the Trades, when working on Door frames, was to install lock latches with 3" Hardened Tempered screws, direct into the studs of the door frame. And did the Same, for Hinge Screws, Meh. They go into the door frame, Only???? I installed the regular hinge screws, for proper hang, and THEN replaced them with those Same HARDENED & Tempered proper shank diameter, 3 1/2 inch screws, and those were all Robertson (Square drive) Screws.

I used to order from McFeely's.com. But now, after a Quarter Century later, Big Box hardware stores sell HARDENED SCREWS !!!! Look for them in Star type drive or Spline, whatever they are called... Worth every dollar you pay for them.

If you are a "contractor", (I was....) then provide one hex bit to the home buyer, so he knows he has the equipment to tighten them. Also, the Word of Mouth sales from you teaching safety, in such a manner only Helps Business. I had no authority to alter Lock Brands, but that is a further ~statement~ to end consumer ! Let them know, every sub division style builder most likely has, and provides "Master Keys" to All Employees, that is how I got MINE, pre-contractor status. Four Keys opened up All Mfg Houses, from the five companies we bought from, in manufactured homes !!!!

philip,
Off the Soap Box now, in the Boon Docks, where I only have a BB Gun. Really. No Kidding. honest injun... WHY you no believe me, ????

 

[ocarolan]

My grandpa did not have a gun safe. He kept them in a glass case or hung over the mantelpiece to show off.

Today, as back then, I believe most people are honest and respect the property of others. The 1% of the population which did not (thieves), dangled on the end of a rope.

But today we let them walk our land with impunity. Instead of locking them up, we lock up ourselves.

 

[hermannr]

Well, I Open Carry, (unless the weather demands a coat, and have done so for 43 years. I have NEVER been robbed, even when we lived just outside Mt Vernon (the road in front of our house was the city boundary, the county and the city always were fighting who's responsibility it was to maintain it, and plow the snow in the winter.)

I will give you guys a little hint...thief's are lazy cowards. They do not want to meet an armed homeowner...and they may know I own firearms (I have a range in my back yard, did when I lived in Mt Vernon too), and there is no way they want to bother me.

 

[Liberty97045]

Yes it does.
With freedom comes responsibility.

It does not negate the criminal act of stealing, but not having your firearms secured in a decent safe is irresponsible.

I second that, I just don't want the government telling me I have to.

 

[hermannr]

There is one valid reason, and only one valid reason, to own a gun safe...That is FIRE! Yea, my house is wood here too, even though I would prefer concrete and rubble construction. I watched a new (60's) German house being built. No American contractor would build a house that way...It took 3 years, 1 1/2 years just for letting the initial pour of concrete to cure. Even with that length of letting the concrete cure, the local scuttlebutt was that they were rushing it. Local view was that the concrete should really cure for 3 years.

When I go looking for a safe I look at the fire rating, I do not look at how many SECONDS it will take a professional thief to break in. Interesting thing about safes though... the ones that have the best ratings for fire, usually have the best rating on the theft deterrent too.

 

[Liberty97045]

There is one valid reason, and only one valid reason, to own a gun safe...That is FIRE! Yea, my house is wood here too, even though I would prefer concrete and rubble construction. I watched a new (60's) German house being built. No American contractor would build a house that way...It took 3 years, 1 1/2 years just for letting the initial pour of concrete to cure. Even with that length of letting the concrete cure, the local scuttlebutt was that they were rushing it. Local view was that the concrete should really cure for 3 years.

When I go looking for a safe I look at the fire rating, I do not look at how many SECONDS it will take a professional thief to break in. Interesting thing about safes though... the ones that have the best ratings for fire, usually have the best rating on the theft deterrent too.

Whatever

 

[Jammer Six]

Speaking as a general contractor, they don't know much about concrete. I think someone was pulling your leg.

Concrete that you can land a 767 on, build a dam or a bridge from takes about a week to be ready for use.

 

[hermannr]

Speaking as a general contractor, they don't know much about concrete. I think someone was pulling your leg.

Concrete that you can land a 767 on, build a dam or a bridge from takes about a week to be ready for use.

Not disagreeing with you, just telling you the way things are viewed in Germany,

 

[powermad]

There is one valid reason, and only one valid reason, to own a gun safe...That is FIRE!

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
Let me guess, you also believe that the mere sound of cycling the action of a shotgun will make anyone soil themselves and run away crying.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

As a contractor as I once was before I forced to retire, you know that concrete reaches it's maximum hardness at around 90 years or so. Once when working on a paper mill that was built around 1900 we had to break up some old concrete. A job that would have normally taken 1 guy and a jackhammer 4 hrs to do ended up taking 4 guys and 2 jackhammers 3 days. One guy would run the jackhammer about 15 min then the other guy would take over non stop. And these were 10 hr days. Hardest damn concrete I ever saw in my life. And then I had to take down a 2 weeks old footing pier that was wrong. Even with all the rebar inside it was a piece of cake to teardown in comparison.

 

[Jammer Six]

As a contractor as I once was before I forced to retire, you know that concrete reaches it's maximum hardness at around 90 years or so. Once when working on a paper mill that was built around 1900 we had to break up some old concrete. A job that would have normally taken 1 guy and a jackhammer 4 hrs to do ended up taking 4 guys and 2 jackhammers 3 days. One guy would run the jackhammer about 15 min then the other guy would take over non stop. And these were 10 hr days. Hardest damn concrete I ever saw in my life. And then I had to take down a 2 weeks old footing pier that was wrong. Even with all the rebar inside it was a piece of cake to teardown in comparison.

Yup.

Past the point where it's hard enough for it's intended purpose doesn't matter, though. Like shooting a field mouse with a 12 gauge. It'll work, but it's a waste. Concrete is not a mystery-- it's been with us since before Roman times.

The things you add to it to get strength early, to get higher strength, to place it in freezing weather or to place it in hot weather fast in high humidity are well understood. You can get more than 90% strength in a week. If you wait three years for another 2%, you're a fool in my book-- because you could have had that same 2% in another week with a little knowledge, training and experience. All waiting does is cost time. Here in the United States, time is valuable.

The hardest concrete I ever dealt with came from under water. You want hard, place it under water.

Not to mention the obvious-- concrete's value is it's ability to manipulate it's strength and it's resistance to weather and rot, not it's hardness. Strength in concrete is not a function of hardness any more than the strength of a knife blade is a function of it's hardness.

I say someone was either pulling his leg, making excuses or trying to impress him with horse puckey.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Cement is a chemical. Concrete is a formula, using the chemical, with or without additional chemicals, IOW, Rock, Sand, Cement, becomes concrete, with the addition of water, and mixing correctly. Other chemicals might be added, for various reasons. The Percentages, or Ratio, Rock, Sand Cement may vary, sgain by need.

As concrete Sets, it can be made stronger, simply by continuing to Wet it, with additional Water (That is in itself adding to the chemical formula!!!)

After curing, if kept from further moisture, concrete by itself will not have a definitive moisture issue, it Can be, for all considerable purpose, considered a ROCK.

Now, many things are added to that basic ratio, to alter the final product. I have personally constructed Above Ground swimming pools, using rebar & Hog Wire 4X6 12 gauge wire welded "Fencing". The pool was only six inhes thick, but the steel in it, PLUS the Concrete Ratio was good, for a three foot "wading pool". Also a variable, the Plaster that makes such construction WATER PROOF !!!!!

But all that is way off topic, so.... Does anybody have an update on the Crime?

philip,
Once upon a time, long long ago, I played a gunite worker in a telivision show, or was it I stayed in the Motel... Anyway, now I livein the Boon Docks, and remember things I did when I was young....

When I was real young, I rode a T Rex to school uphill, in the Ice Age....

OK, I gotta go now, it is story time at the funny farm, and I get to be Daffy Duck

 

[Jammer Six]

No, it doesn't sweat. The water joins with the dry cement in the first few minutes to form cement, and the water begins leaving the admixture immediately. Temperature, humidity, additions to the mix and agitation are a few of the factors that determine how fast the water is able to leave. That's why concrete trucks have a revolving drum. Agitation keeps the water in the concrete longer than hauling in, say, a dump truck would. The problem is almost never getting water out, the problem is almost always keeping the water in the mix long enough to place and finish the concrete. Once placed, water starts rising to the top of the placed concrete, and becomes a factor in how the exposed portion of the pour is finished.

When concrete sweats, there are usually one of two circumstances at work: a hot/cold thermal situation that has a borderline somewhere in the center of the concrete, or water coming from outside the concrete combined with a poorly placed pour. When concrete is poorly placed, it can be quite porous, and porous concrete combined with an external source of water (say, for instance, like a basement wall or a retaining wall) that is forced against the concrete results in water being forced through the wall. Even poor concrete, full of holes will last for a century if it is properly reinforced and the water is simply drained away. Strength in concrete is not created either by the cement or the resulting reaction, it is created by the things that are added to the cement: the aggregate and the reinforcement. Relative to it's weight, cement is quite weak. Properly designed concrete can be enormously strong relative to it's weight.

The thermal situation occurs when conditions on one side of a wall are extremely hot or cold relative to the other side of the wall, and then water simply reaches its dew point on the surface of the wall. It's not coming out of the wall, it's being attracted to the wall out of the air, in much the same way a glass of ice water "sweats".

I'd be perfectly happy with a concrete storage room for my guns, provided it was designed correctly. Bank vaults, in fact, are built of reinforced concrete layered with other materials.

The only hesitation I would have about such a storage vault would be that on a scale smaller than about 200 square feet, a steel safe is probably more cost effective, in the security-per-dollar analysis. But starting at small bedroom size, yes, I would say that a concrete vault would be the way to go.