Poll: 308 Build. Ar-10 or Nice bolt gun?

[manakiah]

I have wanted to build a .308 for long distance shooting. I'm going to go for it but I can't decide if I should go for a Ar-10 format or build up a nice bolt gun? Any suggestions. This will be for distances around 300-800 yards. Thanks Jason

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[kritos666]

I can make a number of suggestions but need more info.

A quality gun in either platform will do easily at those ranges.
To more completely answer these questions and to get a clearer picture of what you want.

1. What are you intending to shoot at/what is your application (Hunting,target,??? )
2. Is accuracy a consideration, If so define accuracy -FOR YOU-.
3. Hand-load or not? If so back to question 2 with more details (size of target, etc)

Once you answer those, I can begin to answer your query.

Dave

 

[manakiah]

I would be for target shooting. As far as accuracy I would say, 6-10 inch targets. I would like to get into handloading aswell but I don't have any equipment yet. I don't want a benchrest rifle.

 

[kritos666]

OK .. several factors to consider. This is by no means a comprehensive list. just a few thoughts.

The Money:
The AR platform has been proven and I have one as well that can be very accurate... however.. its at a cost. until I found the screaming deal that's my bolt-gun. I was looking at the Noveske N6 21" .. it was the best bang for the buck by far.. however its 3100. My bolt gun cost me 1000, would have cost more like 1500-1700 with all the custom work I had done.

complexity:

The AR by nature is more complex, however there are several things that are a plus you do get for those.
UP-side:
The buffer spring takes a lot of recoil out of the rifle. Less recoil = more accuracy. You can also get a hydrolic buffer to take more of that out. Also less recoil makes for quicker target re-acquisition - can be a pain with a bolt-gun at 700+ yards
The down-side:
The more complex, the more to break. the more complex, the less tight the tolerances. Due to that you will loose accuracy. Also do to the adherence of SAAMI specs for AR manufactures, you are tied to those specs. (Think OAL case length) . Cleanup time is lengthy, not terrible.. but a takes time.

Bolt gun:
Up-side:
Less moving parts less to go wrong. You can tune your ammo to your rifle very specifically, for example my bolt gun has the rounds I make .002 off the lands. Clean up is literally 5min or less.
Down-side:
.308 will jump a bit on a bipod, at 700+ yards post-shot target acquisition can be a pain.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[Rammit]

IF your going bolt, you can built a nice gun for around 2k starting with a custom action, by the time you buy a rem 700 or similar and add action work, custom stock your nearing that already. For example you can take a stiller tac 30, around 850, add kreiger barrel thats 600 with chambering, mcmillan stock 500 add a trigger and bottom metal you at or just over 2 grand. That's less the the Georgia precision Base rifle and the options are endless when it comes to stocks barrels and bottom metal combos.

custom ar10s with a mega machine matched set 600ish, add kreiger barrel +400, bolt carrier +150, PRS stock 250$, free float tube and gas block is probably another 400$ a good quality match trigger 200$ and some mags and your in the same ball park. So it really depends which platform you prefer, If I had the money for another custom rifle i would probably go with the ar10 for plinking/target use, but for hunting i would go with the bolt.

 

[madcratebuilder]

What do you prefer, bolt or semi auto? A good 7.62 platform AR well cost a bit more and be a few pounds heavier, not something you would want to carry all day. Either can give great accuracy. Personally I prefer the AR10, since I put mine together my bolt guns see much less action.

 

[millwrt52]

I find ARs are fun, but I think bolt guns are more accurate. I recently built an accurate bolt gun from scratch for 1200. To built a comparable AR would have been 2000 or more. With all the SR25's and AR10's out there, the military still uses the M40 and M24. Just my thoughts.

 

[manakiah]

I got a niced used Remington 700 pss and so the build begins. I have a great gun smith to do the custom work. Check him out. <broken link removed>

 

[millwrt52]

So, do you have a plan or are you going to leave that up to the smith?

 

[manakiah]

Manners stock, new bottom metal, 20 moa rail, new bolt knob etc... A plan that will take alot of cash!

 

[manakiah]

I find ARs are fun, but I think bolt guns are more accurate. I recently built an accurate bolt gun from scratch for 1200. To built a comparable AR would have been 2000 or more. With all the SR25's and AR10's out there, the military still uses the M40 and M24. Just my thoughts.

The military is now turning to Ar-10 formats

 

[millwrt52]

Have you shot your PSS much? I tend to like the HS Precision stocks that come on the police models. As a matter of fact, I put together a 700P clone that I like, but I have others I shoot more often. This is also true of the bottom metal, depending on what you get. Just from those parts mentioned, if you're handy, you could install those parts yourself. Including bedding the stock and scope base and installing an over sized bolt knob. I like to do as much as I can myself. So far I've put together three of the six 700's that I've got. I guess it's like BRD. At one time I had twelve AR's, but now down to a manageable three.

 

[ridurall]

My 3, .308s are a 1983 Wincester mod 70 Featherweight that is supprisingly accurate for the type of rifle using handloads w/165 gr Hornady bullets. My Armalite AR-10 will shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards and has taking prairie dog sized rocks at 800 yards. Not much recoil on it except for Pinkhmr, for some reason it kicks him but my 10 year old likes it also. I also just picked up a FNAR .308 and while it does not like Lake City brass but shoots great groups with Federal Brass. There is almost no recoil with it. A painless gun to shoot. It's got a Burris XTR 3-12X50 BDC Mil dot scope on it. My suggestion is go with the FNAR or AR-10. You will be happy with either gun.

 

[Ampster]

IMHO, Having built both AR's and Bolt guns for LR accuracy shooting before, I've found that if I add up all of my time, the equipment I've invested in, gear, research, etc. It would have been much cheaper to save up some money and get a high end AR or bolt gun.

The components individually were very affordable, but as you add them up, take it to the range, test, tweak, bed, adjust tolerances, lap, re-tweak, etc. etc. It was economically not viable... Why? Technology from factory guns have gotten so much better, allowing them to produce tack drivers off the shelf, assuming your optics/sights and skills are up to par.

Such was my experience...

 

[speelyei]

Manners stock, new bottom metal, 20 moa rail, new bolt knob etc... A plan that will take alot of cash!

My advice:
Buy only what you need to start shooting. You don't need a new bolt knob, bottom metal, and may not need a new stock either. Unless your stock is tupperware or has some other flaw, leave it.
You'll want that 20 moa base, and some decent rings, and a scope (mil-dot reticle and target knobs). Take some of the money you were going to throw away on DBM bottom metal, and a buy a data book, and a mil-dot master. Pick some decent ammunition, buy a couple hundred rounds, and save your brass.
There are free ballistics programs you can use as a ballpark. These will save you some hunt and peck, but the real data will be what you collect over a period of months. There is a CD-Rom trainer that you might find helpful, also.

after learning to range and estimate distance, establishing a zero, logging your shots, etc etc etc you may find that the rifle you wanted isn't the rifle you need.

You will likely start handloading if you get the long-distance bug.

some other stuff to think about: Do you already have swinging steel targets made? Do you already have a place to shoot? Do you have a spotting scope? a sand/bean sock?

 

[millwrt52]

My advice:
Buy only what you need to start shooting. You don't need a new bolt knob, bottom metal, and may not need a new stock either. Unless your stock is tupperware or has some other flaw, leave it.
You'll want that 20 moa base, and some decent rings, and a scope (mil-dot reticle and target knobs). Take some of the money you were going to throw away on DBM bottom metal, and a buy a data book, and a mil-dot master. Pick some decent ammunition, buy a couple hundred rounds, and save your brass.
There are free ballistics programs you can use as a ballpark. These will save you some hunt and peck, but the real data will be what you collect over a period of months. There is a CD-Rom trainer that you might find helpful, also.

after learning to range and estimate distance, establishing a zero, logging your shots, etc etc etc you may find that the rifle you wanted isn't the rifle you need.

You will likely start handloading if you get the long-distance bug.

some other stuff to think about: Do you already have swinging steel targets made? Do you already have a place to shoot? Do you have a spotting scope? a sand/bean sock?

All this is very good advice. Although I believe if you can't mount the rifle comfortably and consistently, your accuracy will either suffer or you will struggle for it. To me this pertains mostly for a proper and solid cheek plant.

 

[manakiah]

Y

My advice:
Buy only what you need to start shooting. You don't need a new bolt knob, bottom metal, and may not need a new stock either. Unless your stock is tupperware or has some other flaw, leave it.
You'll want that 20 moa base, and some decent rings, and a scope (mil-dot reticle and target knobs). Take some of the money you were going to throw away on DBM bottom metal, and a buy a data book, and a mil-dot master. Pick some decent ammunition, buy a couple hundred rounds, and save your brass.
There are free ballistics programs you can use as a ballpark. These will save you some hunt and peck, but the real data will be what you collect over a period of months. There is a CD-Rom trainer that you might find helpful, also.

after learning to range and estimate distance, establishing a zero, logging your shots, etc etc etc you may find that the rifle you wanted isn't the rifle you need.

You will likely start handloading if you get the long-distance bug.

some other stuff to think about: Do you already have swinging steel targets made? Do you already have a place to shoot? Do you have a spotting scope? a sand/bean sock?

Yes, I'm just getting the gun rolling. I don't need any of the extras. I need a good scope first. Any suggestions?

 

[speelyei]

this is a good review of the usual suspects. For myself, I have a fixed 10x Bushnell, they retail for under $200. I would like to buy a nicer scope, but I can't justify $1k on something like that at this time.

 

[hondakilla98]

I just went through this decision. I couldn't justify the extra money for an AR10. I picked up a used Remington 700 Police with a Harris bipod, sleeved bolt, badger bolt knob, limbsaver recoil pad, and trigger work already done by Oly's in Salem. It came in the factory HS Precision stock with aluminum bedding block. I found this for just over $700 on this forum. Then ordered my EGW 20 MOA base and Burris XTR rings from swfa, and put a Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 scope on it. The only thing holding this setup back is me. I'm new to this kind of shooting and trying to learn as much as I can. Next on my list is a mildot master, laser range finder, and spotting scope. I'm into this rifle about $1200 with glass. I then spent $250 on some ammo to see what it likes. And have recently bought a reloading setup. I'm still under $2000 for rifle, glass, ammo and reloading equipment. That's why I voted bolt.

 

[manakiah]

Yeah, Bolt gun is the way to go for sure!