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Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Mica, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    So this was factory ammo from what I was told. I shot these two rounds in my 1895 winchester. They did have alot of recoil. the bullets looked like the typical 180 grain soft point remington puts out . When they do put them out.

    My question is what would cause this. I am leaning towards maxed out reload. I am still fairly new to loading. none of my loads have done this .
  2. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    May have been seated too far and caused over pressure, if you have anymore of this measure the over all length. I assume that this rifle has functioned fine till that ammo and is head spaced correctly.
  3. HollisOR

    HollisOR Rural OR, South of Dallas Active Member

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    Look at your primers they are usually the first and best sign of high pressure.

    Also, "So this was factory ammo from what I was told" Might say something. Again, primers used may or may not indicate if it was a reload.

    Also what does the base of the case say?

    Also; possible: ".30-40 Krag brass cases can be formed into .303 Savage dimensions as well."

    Or could be bad brass.
  4. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Based on where it split I would also consider that there was a headspace problem. If factory ammo, the case may have been formed improperly with the shoulder too far back on the case. When fired, this area would be totally unsupported. If it was a reload, the sizing die was set too low and increased headspace was the result.

    As for primer's as an indicator of high pressure, they aren't always the best indicator as some are softer than others. I find that winchester primers tend to flatten out even with mid range loads while CCI's and Wolf, with the same load, still have lots of radius on the edge when fired.

    Look for any extractor marks or markings from the bolt face that might be embossed on the case head. I also watch for any "stretch marks" on the body of he case near the head. Also watch for signs of difficult extraction of the fired case.

    Before firing any more of these rounds you might want to measure the cases with something like a Hornady Headspace Tool. Compare the unfired dimensions with a case fired in the same rifle. The fired case will be within a couple of thousandths of the actual chamber dimension and existing headspace for that rifle.

    BTW, this tool is great for setting up sizing dies when a case gauge for that caliber is not available.
  5. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    thanks for the info guys, I all ready came to the conclusion about the 30-40 case guage. The col is visualy shorter than a factory load. its remington brass, however I do have two factory rounds from winchester to get some what of a comparison with. I think I will pull one and weigh the powder. to see ware thats at. I do know that I dont like seeing this knowing I just fired these two rounds in my old winchester.
  6. rpatton

    rpatton Graham WA Member

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    I have some .30 remington cases doing the same thing in my model 81 Remington. Glad I came across this thread, it will give me somethings to check when I get back from vacation. will try in input anything I learn.
  7. OreShooter

    OreShooter Portland Member

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    Something to consider. You say your "old" Winchester. After you get the headspace gauge so you can measure, dig up the chamber dims for the 30-40 that is used nowadays and then compare it to your cases. I'm assuming these split cases are in fact factory, although as a previous post noted this is suspect. It might be your headspace on that old gun is not done to "modern" standards. Just a thought.
  8. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Slightly excessive headspace in old lever guns is usually evidenced by fired primers backing out slightly beyond flush. This is VERY common with old '94's firing factory dimensioned brass, and USUALLY nothing to be concerned with. The remedy is partial sizing the next time around, and shoot the gun for another hundred years.

    The '95 is worlds stronger than a '94, and excessive headspace is rather unusual in these Winchesters, except perhaps in the case (pun intended) of the .30-06 versions, and only then after extensive firings with full-tilt boogie '06 loads. Most '06 '95 owners (yours truly) keep their loads down to 30-03 levels or less: perhaps because their human shoulders are less strong than the gun.

    With what you have shown, I would suspect brittle brass, unstable powder or primer (both possible with ancient factory loads), or factory brass that is undersized for your chamber---but it still should not have cracked unless the previous stuff was present.

    I share deadshot's trepidation toward using fired primer appearance as a reliable indicator of pressure: it is ONE criteria, but probably the least consistent one, for the reasons he so well stated.

    What would I do? Toss out all the grandpas. You should be able to tell if they are factory loads by crimp/cannelure and primer appearance. Your idea to gut grandpa to see what's in him is interesting to me.

    Then I'd keep shooting your handloads that are working fine in your strong gun.
  9. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    First off, the 30-40 round is a rimmed case, right? Rimmed cases headspace on the rim, Not on the shoulder. If the case shoulder is pushed back too far during resizing and then fired, you are overworking the brass. Splits are a result of this. Just size your cases a minimum amount to allow reliable feeding: make some powder and primer-less cases with bullets to see how much/little you need to size. The less the better. Be sure to "work-up" your loads for best results
    As a RULE: I don't shoot others' reloads, that are not worked up for my rifle.
  10. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    You should check the headstamp... perhaps you could post a picture...

    My theory is these are older rounds, and the brass experienced some age cracking because it wasn't tempered properly after forming. This has been a common issue for certain cartridges throughout history. One of the places most people have seen this is all those turkish 8mm rounds that were imported a few years ago, those were notorious for age cracking issues. Generally, overpressure does not result in case cracking.
  11. Mecanik

    Mecanik La Center Active Member

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    Check your head space with a head space gauge first before you fire anything more in your rifle. I would have a gunsmith inspect the chamber for correct dimensions with a chamber cast also. But I would suspect you have old ammo that just simply split. I've seen factory Remington ammo do the same thing in a 7mm Remington magnum. There was nothing wrong with the gun at all. I had about 4 rounds out of a box of 20 split exactly the same way. The ammo was factory ammo that had sit for approx 20 years or possibly more. The ammo companies aren't perfect either. Sometimes a hard batch of brass comes through the process.