30-06 Heavy (200gr to 225gr) long range load dev.

[joshp3]

Good evening! I am just wondering if anyone has done any load development with the 30-06 using something like the 212gr ELD-X or a 225gr ELD-match? I found that my rifle will shoot those two particular bullets pretty well and I can get around 2600fps to 2650fps out of the 212gr. using staball 6.5. I really had my heart set on using the 225gr ELD-match and getting to somewhere around 2550fps at the muzzle. I have hit 2500fps using superformance, just as the Hornady manual claims but, I am down to my last little bit of that powder and im not sure its going to quite get me to that 2550 mark when its 20-30 degrees during a hunt.
Anyone out there have any experience/data with staball 6.5 and 225gr. bullets or any of the "staball" options? I have a few lbs of 6.5/Match/HD as well as a few 4350 options and 4831. Hunter doesnt get me there, already tried with it and RL-17/19. Those last ones are too sensative to temps anyway.
I appreciate your time in advance!
(For what its worth, I do not necessarily intend to hunt with the 225gr match round, it would have to be a VERY specific situation for me to accept using it on game but, it has happened to me a couple of times so its a problem Id prefer having an answer for.)

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[MikeInOr]

I don't understand your hang-up on a particular exact velocity. Do you think the elk/deer is going to know the difference between 2500fps or 2550fps?

 

[joshp3]

I don't understand your hang-up on a particular exact velocity. Do you think the elk/deer is going to know the difference between 2500fps or 2550fps?

Just squeezing as much out of the round as I can. You know....ballistics and all.

 

[bionic knees]

I have a .338 win mag for sale here that pushes 200 grain hornady interlocks to just under 3000 fps. You know, just for ballistics and all

 

[MikeInOr]

Just squeezing as much out of the round as I can. You know....ballistics and all.

Personally I strive for a consistent repeatable tight group instead of max velocity. I don't like to live on the edge of max pressure. Being able to place a shot exactly where I want it makes a much bigger difference than a few foot pounds of energy when it comes to making a clean kill.

But it is a free world, you are welcome to load how ever you want. Just be carful please!

 

[JRuby]

Just squeezing as much out of the round as I can. You know....ballistics and all.

Get a bigger cartridge if you need more speed. It's safer.

 

[Koda]

Ive never understood the criticism of chasing velocity, isn't thats what makes handloading desirable? There's nothing wrong with maximizing a cartridges potential. A faster bullet performs better than a slower one. The thing to remember is if its worth squeezing every fps in light of accuracy and pressure, I wouldn't bother with pushing an extra 50fps myself if I had an accuracy node. But I'm also not assuming the OP is having pressure issues?

 

[JRuby]

I will always go for accuracy over velocity. It's best to match the two if you can but very rarely with the fastest bullet be the most accurate. Running bullets as fast as you can push them also has a tendency towards max pressures. A fast bullet does not necessarily kill better- it's all about the limits of the bullet your shooting.

 

[joshp3]

Personally I strive for a consistent repeatable tight group instead of max velocity. I don't like to live on the edge of max pressure. Being able to place a shot exactly where I want it makes a much bigger difference than a few foot pounds of energy when it comes to making a clean kill.

But it is a free world, you are welcome to load how ever you want. Just be carful please!

I appreciate the sentiment. Thats why I stated in the post, this is being developed for a very specific situation. It isnt something that is like...option 1...I have the 180gr Nosler partition for that.

 

[P7M13]

Ive never understood the criticism of chasing velocity, isn't thats what makes handloading desirable? There's nothing wrong with maximizing a cartridges potential. A faster bullet performs better than a slower one. The thing to remember is if its worth squeezing every fps in light of accuracy and pressure, I wouldn't bother with pushing an extra 50fps myself if I had an accuracy node. But I'm also not assuming the OP is having pressure issues?

I chased max velocity for years, and never got within 100fps of shooters' claimed velocity using the same powder, bullet and gun. I came to the conclusion that a few of them were given to hyperbole, or ignored their pressure signs.
Along the way, I discovered, my most accurate node was often one or two down from the fastest node.
Of dozens of rifles, only one shined where the fastest node was also the most accurate, a 7mm Rem Mag. But each shot had heavy bolt lift.
This thread inspires me to try heavy for caliber bullets in my 30-06. Got plenty of Superperformance, 4350, 4831 *and* Staball 6.5

 

[Koda]

I chased max velocity for years, and never got within 100fps of shooters' claimed velocity using the same powder, bullet and gun.

I should clarify my opinion is maximizing the cartridges potential not getting to max velocity. Eg: I wouldn't stop with an accuracy node several hundred fps below normal just because its accurate, it must be a respectable velocity typical for the cartridge. Like you mentioned, there's usually an accuracy node just below book max.
Ive also read in other forums handloaders boasting impressive velocities but Ive never achieved the same and think its unwise to chase someone else's velocity. I think many of them arent being honest or are unaware how close they are.
If the OP thinks he has room to go I'll take his word for it but I agree I wouldn't bother over 50fps but I also wouldn't bother with the 225gn bullet over the 212 either like 212 isn't enough for anything.

 

[joshp3]

Get a bigger cartridge if you need more speed. It's safer.

Ive never understood the criticism of chasing velocity, isn't thats what makes handloading desirable? There's nothing wrong with maximizing a cartridges potential. A faster bullet performs better than a slower one. The thing to remember is if its worth squeezing every fps in light of accuracy and pressure, I wouldn't bother with pushing an extra 50fps myself if I had an accuracy node. But I'm also not assuming the OP is having pressure issues?

No sir, so far I see exactly what I would expect to see from cases and, to the degree it can be considered evidence of pressure, i am not getting way out over my ski's on the velocity. In fact the 212gr eld-x I tested, and the 225 eld match were both loaded at 0.3 grain UNDER the max recommended charges Ive found for the rounds. I worked up to those marks and im getting right around a 4 inch group at 300 yards. Just an off the shelf remington 700 "American wilderness rifle". 24 inch barrel. Once I get this close to the max powder charge I start considering whether there are other components that might get me a bit more rather than just maxing out the charge. It might be thats the only thing i can do though.

 

[P7M13]

Ive also read in other forums handloaders boasting impressive velocities but Ive never achieved the same and think its unwise to chase someone else's velocity. I think many of them arent being honest or are unaware how close they are.

I totally agree.

 

[joshp3]

I chased max velocity for years, and never got within 100fps of shooters' claimed velocity using the same powder, bullet and gun. I came to the conclusion that a few of them were given to hyperbole, or ignored their pressure signs.
Along the way, I discovered, my most accurate node was often one or two down from the fastest node.
Of dozens of rifles, only one shined where the fastest node was also the most accurate, a 7mm Rem Mag. But each shot had heavy bolt lift.
This thread inspires me to try heavy for caliber bullets in my 30-06. Got plenty of Superperformance, 4350, 4831 *and* Staball 6.5

Yeah this is kind of the only instance in which I really try to eek out every little bit I can from the velocity. Accuracy with a quality bullet is for sure the best recipe for success. There are definitely some guys out there that may fudge the numbers for whatever reason, there are without a doubt guys that will load a round at max charge and say "Weeeeellllll....it does say maximum RECOMMENDED charge.....". Then there are the ones that just have their chronograph or whatever velocity instrument, set up incorrectly. Ive been there.

 

[joshp3]

I should clarify my opinion is maximizing the cartridges potential not getting to max velocity. Eg: I wouldn't stop with an accuracy node several hundred fps below normal just because its accurate, it must be a respectable velocity typical for the cartridge. Like you mentioned, there's usually an accuracy node just below book max.
Ive also read in other forums handloaders boasting impressive velocities but Ive never achieved the same and think its unwise to chase someone else's velocity. I think many of them arent being honest or are unaware how close they are.
If the OP thinks he has room to go I'll take his word for it but I agree I wouldn't bother over 50fps but I also wouldn't bother with the 225gn bullet over the 212 either like 212 isn't enough for anything.

Just so we are clear I am very aware im likely at the end of my road on this load lol But ive never loaded anything over the 200gr pills with this particular cartridge until these so I was coming here, humbly, wondering if anyone else maybe has. Because im not prone to just throwing bubblegum at the wall and hoping it sticks when it has a chamber pressure of 60k psi or so.

 

[orygun]

I've played with the 30-06 in both standard and Ackley Improved versions, mostly with 180gr bullets, but with enough 150's thrown in to have an opinion. I've had a lot of conversations with myself about twist rates. Even with a 180gr bullet I think the old '06 would benefit with a 1:9" twist instead of the standard 1:10". I think this would prove even more useful with bullets 200gr and heavier.
I use RL22. I don't shoot "long range" and the difference in velocity at 200 yards between September and November are inconsequential for me. I think there's another one, RL23 maybe, that is supposed to be similar but more temp stable.

 

[Koda]

I wish there was some official source for temp stability but all I can find is a chart posted on a hunting forum. Its not clear but the way I read it is the number means velocity change in fps per every degree of change in temp from when the load was developed.

Gunpowder charts for temp sensitivity and burn rates

I’m looking for a good comprehensive source of data on gunpowder, showing temperature sensitivity and burn rates. I’ve seen some charts posted here in the past, and have found some by google search, but what I’ve found is missing powders that I see folks are using in load development for...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[joshp3]

I wish there was some official source for temp stability but all I can find is a chart posted on a hunting forum. Its not clear but the way I read it is the number means velocity change in fps per every degree of change in temp from when the load was developed.

Gunpowder charts for temp sensitivity and burn rates

I’m looking for a good comprehensive source of data on gunpowder, showing temperature sensitivity and burn rates. I’ve seen some charts posted here in the past, and have found some by google search, but what I’ve found is missing powders that I see folks are using in load development for...

www.longrangehunting.com

I believe i have stumbled onto that chart myself. I will double check just in case though, thank you!

 

[orygun]

I wish there was some official source for temp stability but all I can find is a chart posted on a hunting forum. Its not clear but the way I read it is the number means velocity change in fps per every degree of change in temp from when the load was developed.

Gunpowder charts for temp sensitivity and burn rates

I’m looking for a good comprehensive source of data on gunpowder, showing temperature sensitivity and burn rates. I’ve seen some charts posted here in the past, and have found some by google search, but what I’ve found is missing powders that I see folks are using in load development for...

www.longrangehunting.com

I've seen that or something similar before.
I'd say that if you're making loads in July and August, like I used to do, shooting in the winter may show a difference.
My "comparison" had to do with loads developed in July at 2000ft and shot right to point of aim in November at almost 5000ft.
Obviously, the farther out you shoot, the more a difference will be noticeable, but at 100 yards I could not tell the difference.
That's when I quit over thinking this subject. I believe there will be a bigger chance of shooter error, than what the slight loss of velocity will cause.

 

[joshp3]

I have a .338 win mag for sale here that pushes 200 grain hornady interlocks to just under 3000 fps. You know, just for ballistics and all

Im not sure how I missed that post yesterday. I have a 300 PRC partially build...waiting on some gunsmithing but i MIGHT have it before the hunt...I do have a soft spot for 338's though. I will take a look! Im still going to squeeze the hell out of my 06 load though. No, not to a dangerous level...just to the maximum velocity achievable with accuracy and no pressure problems. I am very very close. The argument is fair though, the other guys asserted the sentiment that you likely can do anything that the 2550fps load does, with 2500fps just the same. Provided the accuracy is there. It is not lost on me that I have probably maxed out the round with that 225gr ELD-Match. I do have some Bergers on the way but, I have never hunted with them personally. I know a couple of guys that swear by them but, we shall see!