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Without high BC bullets, the CM loses its efficiency.
What he said.
For general hunting usage BC is not the end-all-be-all.
In the distant past, when aircraft engineers were working on breaking the sound barrier, they modeled the shape of the X-1 after a 750gr .50BMG bullet, that bullet was given a BC of 1, as a reference standard, or model, (meaning "perfect",) and everything since then has been given a BC designation as a percentage of 1.
'Course everybody before that time knew that heavier bullets for caliber always worked better.
Even the Navy knew that the 2900lb shell from a 16in rifle would shoot better than the 1900lb, or the 2100lb shells would.
Oh,, I know there was some "dust up" about some posts I made about twist rates.
Anyway, the twist rate for the 16in guns is 1:400in., the shells make about 2 turns before they leave the barrel, going about the same speed as an .30-06,, about 2700fps.
 
Thinking about all of this discussion of cartridges and projectiles reminds me that 5 years ago before moving out here I hammered a white tail into submission from 75 yards distance with a 190 grain gas checked lead .311 bullet and a charge of 2400 about from my 03 Springfield. The charge in question moves that lead bolice along at a leisurely 1800 feet per second. The deer did not seem to know he was not shot with a high BC bullet. which brings into play the other part of the equation with any cartridge when we go a field.

One should know their limitations before taking the shot.
 
.30/06, king of all it surveys! Nuff Said!
If you need flatter shootin, your really doing something wrong! If you need to buck the wind better, get better bullets!
If you don't like recoil, go find another hobby, guns ain't for you!

I get it, I really do! I got caught up in the whole 6.5MM thing way back when, and ya know what, I found that the old Swede could do everything I thought I wanted with out having to mess about, just find bullets it liked in proper weights and construction and load them until you no longer saw any improvement's and that's where you stayed, easy, and when that rifle snaps to the shoulder, the sights settle on the exact spot of the animal I wish to hit, the trigger almost pulls it's self before I even realize I have fired, and a few seconds later, I have meat on the ground, DEAD!
The Creed is a solution looking for a problem that others have addressed, many long ago, so I see it only as marketing to a new group of shooters or seasoned ones looking for something to play with our of boredom with their ever reliable and consistent shooter!

I like the .270, its fast, accurate, hits like a Mack truck, and things die quickly when hit by it! Cant ask for more then that!
When I need more of something, the Aught 6 gets the nod, or the .338 Winny if the mighty Aught 6 ain't enough!
Still a big fan of the .243 Win, not much it cant do within reason!
Another bunch of well made points.
 
What are these "cartridges" I keep reading about....?

I even asked my friends Kit Carson and Jim Bridger and they didn't know either....
So we went back to arguing over which is better :
.50 caliber ( .490 round ball ) or .54 caliber ( .530 round ball ) ....:eek: :D
Andy
 
What are these "cartridges" I keep reading about....?

I even asked my friends Kit Carson and Jim Bridger and they didn't know either....
So we went back to arguing over which is better :
.50 caliber ( .490 round ball ) or .54 caliber ( .530 round ball ) ....:eek: :D
Andy

A .490 round ball out of a 45/70 can be a great little plinking round.

Darn it I had to fix that ... my fat fingers are making great mistakes. o_O
 
For the youngsters who preach 9mm and CM because they are afraid of a little equal/opposite reaction....:s0140:

I've seen plenty of people on the range getting the snot kicked out of them while closing their eyes before the trigger pull. :D
 
Don't remember source of information but the .270 was used to kill more elk than any other caliber. Not sure how to substantiate such a claim. Some argue the .30/.30 with same claim. Own and prefer .270 WSM. Again another unnamed source called it the .270 magnum or .270 on steroids. Like the history, the range of bullets, loading data.
.

According to several sources, including RMEF, the 30-06 held more records than any other cartridge for ages, only to be surpassed by the 300 Winchester Magnum.

I'll admit I have not, but when the cartridge was introduced and the numbers told me it was not an improvement over the 260 or 6.5x55 Skan I already owned there was no want for me to buy it. With few exceptions that is how my new caliber procurement take place. A new addition to my stable needs to offer a meaningful gain in performance.
The "real" improvements in the CM are the throat of the chamber. The tolerance is much closer to actual bullet diameter than any preexisting rounds, keeping the bullet more directly inline with the bore, minimizing bullet "tilt".
It is extremely hard to find better real world performance when you use a 30-06 and a 180 grain Game King . I am told that both are obsolete by younger shooters , yet both still seem to work as designed .
Yup. Or a Partition. Or an accubond, or....:D
What are these "cartridges" I keep reading about....?

I even asked my friends Kit Carson and Jim Bridger and they didn't know either....
So we went back to arguing over which is better :
.50 caliber ( .490 round ball ) or .54 caliber ( .530 round ball ) ....:eek: :D
Andy

Andy, for you it's that thing that looks like a fat cigarette that you tear open and pour the powder out of!
 
Maybe someone already said this........

Is this really a apples to apples comparison when one rifle is using Superformance ammo and the other is shooting generic American Whitetail ammo? Seems skewed in favor of the .270.

-E-
 
Don't remember source of information but the .270 was used to kill more elk than any other caliber. Not sure how to substantiate such a claim.
Possibly hyperbole, but I have met too many hunters to count who are carrying either a 270 or 30-06.

You guys should see the hate I'm getting on the 6.5 Creedmoor facebook group
Facebook - home to mall ninjas, armchair operators, and where soy-bois go to whine. I'm surprised they still allow groups for any cartridges there.

I'm surprised at the ES of the 6.5 CM, IIRC ~87fps. That's pretty bad. While the 270 still had ~1200 ft-lbs out to 900, with an ES of 68, I wouldn't try a shot over 200 with that.
 
I'm surprised at the ES of the 6.5 CM, IIRC ~87fps. That's pretty bad. While the 270 still had ~1200 ft-lbs out to 900, with an ES of 68, I wouldn't try a shot over 200 with that.

As others have correctly opined there is a huge difference between knocking a hole in paper and putting an animal down that weighs several hundred pounds.

I recently had a discussion with a fella younger than myself who is into all the newish plasticky guns, basically anything that looks like it should be in a video game. He was looking at one of my 45/70 rifles , specifically a Trapdoor. He happened to say he wasn't impressed by the velocity of the cartridge ... He then proceeded to ask me about the terminal performance and what do the bullets look like when I recover one from a kill.

In response I said I have no idea because I have never recovered one from any animal I have shot with it. The bullet goes clean through.
 
Maybe someone already said this........

Is this really a apples to apples comparison when one rifle is using Superformance ammo and the other is shooting generic American Whitetail ammo? Seems skewed in favor of the .270.

-E-
I looked up the ballistic info for 270 130gr American Whitetail and punched the data into the same ballistic calculator and it still beats the Creed in bullet drop and retained energy at every distance.
 
He then proceeded to ask me about the terminal performance and what do the bullets look like when I recover one from a kill.

In response I said I have no idea because I have never recovered one from any animal I have shot with it. The bullet goes clean through.
Yup. 'Nuf said.
Sounds like he watched a lot of "ballistics gel" videos on YouTube.

According to several sources, including RMEF, the 30-06 held more records than any other cartridge for ages, only to be surpassed by the 300 Winchester Magnum.

Given the timeframe that both cartridges have been in existence, it's not a fair comparison to give the '06 and 270win around 100 years to put records in the books and 13years for the 6.5CM.

Possibly hyperbole, but I have met too many hunters to count who are carrying either a 270 or 30-06.
Agreed. I have to go looking for the "fancy" hunters wearing KUIU, SITKA, or camo-of-the-month to see their fancy new calibers. Most of the folks I walk in on are wearing buffalo plaid or old mossyoak/realtree and are shooting the common cartridges.
 

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