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Let's design an awesome cartridge and then build a rifle with the wrong barrel twist so we can't capitalize on it.
To be fair, at the time velocity and the belted magnum were big deals from a marketing standpoint. They were probably 'just' responding to what the gun writers at the time had told people they should want. On that note, and on topic, I think that has a lot to do with the sudden love for the things we now see suddenly loved.

Me, I've always liked the 300 WM overall, as a versatile choice in North America.

For something lighter, knowing i have the 300 for bigger stuff, I'd probably go 243 or maybe 25-06. But the 300 works for a very wide variety of uses.
 

All things being equal, (BC, SD, construction, proper twist), bigger case wins. But, they aren't equal. The twist for the 270 is 1 in 10, slower than the fast twists you see with the Creedmoor cartridges. The target bullet market is non existent in .277.

So, one does it by efficiency and the other does it with power. However, power can only go so far. Its like starting in Seattle with a prius and a chevelle super sport. The chevelle gets to Ellensburg real fast. But the Prius makes it to Spokane on one tank. If Sesttle to Ellensburg is 400 yards, the farthest distance most people have any business shooting at an animal, I pick the chevelle. Stretch it to 1000 on steel, gotta go with the Prius, or drastically re-engineer the Chevelle.
 
That is 100% the fault of Remington they did the same thing to the 244/6mm Remington . Let's design an awesome cartridge and then build a rifle with the wrong barrel twist so we can't capitalize on it.

Same thing for the 7mm Express / 280 Remington. The 280 is the equal of the 7mm Remington Magnum but lets load it down to a lower level of performance because we can't have it displacing the 7Mag :rolleyes:

People wonder why Remington went bankrupt....

I have both, and my 7mm Rem Mag easily pushes the same bullet 200fps faster than the 280.
 
You guys should see the hate I'm getting on the 6.5 Creedmoor facebook group I posted this too. It's actually pretty funny. I think they might be putting a posse together to hunt me down.
[/QUOTE
Its hard for me to be somewhat nice to all the Creedmor folks. It is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated. I have no issue with it on small game like Deer and Pronghorn, and its a great bench round ( what it was designed for) I have real issues with it on elk. We can say its all about the shooter and bullet placement, blah blah blah. Its not enough for elk unless you have the perfect conditions and no more than a couple hundred yards. After that too many things happen.

Here comes hate my way: I think an elk rounds starts with a .270 and goes up from there. Yes .260 work, but those thpe of real world shooters are getting fewer and fewer.
 
The 6.5mm instantly turns everyone into long range snipers and hunters.
It's kinda like PF Flyers shoes when I was a kid...makes you run faster and jump higher.

That is 100% the fault of Remington they did the same thing to the 244/6mm Remington . Let's design an awesome cartridge and then build a rifle with the wrong barrel twist so we can't capitalize on it.
We do have to consider the time of its origin. The 244 was intended as a varmint cartridge, made for lighter bullets. Back then .243 / 6mm bullets weren't necessarily the rage for larger North American animals, keeping in mind it was released about the same time as the .243 in 1955.

From talking with my dad (born in 1914) people he knew mostly stuck with 30 caliber & 270's (with it's champion O'Connor)...the 257 Roberts and eventually 243 / 6mm rounds were known as women's and kids guns. (NOT saying this is true, but was the perception of many of this era). I have a 6mm Rem and been a long time since I was a kid!
 
@belshawelk

Here is the problem concerning American hunters, and before I continue I in no way advocate for the US to have similar rules to those in any European country.

The 6.5x55 and by
extension the 260 Remington are absolutely more than adequate for taking elk and moose. Almost all European countries that I am aware of require that hunters take a test to prove their ability to actually hunt and take game with a rifle. If you can't prove your knowledge and ability you aren't allowed to hunt . Hunters in the Scandinavian countries where the Swede is the dominate caliber have to prove they can make kill shots on animals standing still while stalking and on animals that are on the move .

I remember having the opportunity to go hunting in Germany while I was in the army and it was nothing like buying your license/ tag , running to Sportsmans and getting ammo, then grabbing a 6 pack for after the hunt. Hunting is a very serious and formal affair in most European countries and it is not a right.
 
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It's kinda like PF Flyers shoes when I was a kid...makes you run faster and jump higher.


We do have to consider the time of its origin. The 244 was intended as a varmint cartridge, made for lighter bullets. Back then .243 / 6mm bullets weren't necessarily the rage for larger North American animals, keeping in mind it was released about the same time as the .243 in 1955.

From talking with my dad (born in 1914) people he knew mostly stuck with 30 caliber & 270's (with it's champion O'Connor)...the 257 Roberts and eventually 243 / 6mm rounds were known as women's and kids guns. (NOT saying this is true, but was the perception of many of this era). I have a 6mm Rem and been a long time since I was a kid!


Actually the 243 came out at the exact same time as the 244 .. Winchester chose wisely and went on to bury the 244 due to the poor choices made by Remington engineers. The 243 was a do all caliber that proved it was accurate enough for both jobs not excelling at either. Sometimes good enough is well good enough.


I do not disagree though with your commentary about the 6mm both 6mm and 243 were seen as women's / children's starter deer rifles when I was growing up.
 
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Actually the 243 came out at the exact same time as the 244 .. Winchester chose wisely and went on to bury the 244 due to the poor choices made by Remington engineers. The 243 was a do all caliber that proved it was accurate enough for both jobs not excelling at either. Sometimes good enough is well good enough.
Agreed, I just think that Remington did not believe a 6mm / .243 round would be well received with the bulk of game hunters and, at the time, varmint hunting was hugely popular. Agree that Winchester had the foresight but even when I was a kid in the 70's, most people I knew thought of it as a women's / kids gun (again, not saying this is the case because it clearly is not).
 
Agreed, I just think that Remington did not believe a 6mm / .243 round would be well received with the bulk of game hunters and, at the time, varmint hunting was hugely popular. Agree that Winchester had the foresight but even when I was a kid in the 70's, most people I knew thought of it as a women's / kids gun (again, not saying this is the case because it clearly is not).

No disagreement from me and that in no small part was thanks to the genius that was Mike Walker. He had a heavy influence on Remington rifle / cartridge design and was a prolific benchrest competitor and varmint hunter.
 
My cousins took a lot of deer and elk w/ the 243, no problem. The only complaint I heard was from my uncle, regarding the amount of meat lost on the backside if the bullet had the misfortune to strike a rib on entry.

Dad always taught us to aim for the brain - he didn't like wasting meat.
 
I disagree about the 270 being superior to the 6.5 Creed. The 6.5 Creed absolutely spanks the 270 in...................................


















Ammo availability now!!! LOL.
 
My cousins took a lot of deer and elk w/ the 243, no problem. The only complaint I heard was from my uncle, regarding the amount of meat lost on the backside if the bullet had the misfortune to strike a rib on entry.

Dad always taught us to aim for the brain - he didn't like wasting meat.

That was more due to bullet choice than the caliber itself, I have experienced the same effect with 8x57 and 30-06 . 30 years ago I shot a deer with a 8x57 Remington Bronze Point , when we started skinning it the right shoulder fell off the animal and a coffee can size exit wound was visible. We never found the bullet or any jacket material.
 
6.5 is a winner for me.

those with bad shoulders like myself who don't take recoil well, appreciate the lower recoil of the 6.5.
 
I disagree about the 270 being superior to the 6.5 Creed. The 6.5 Creed absolutely spanks the 270 in...................................

Ammo availability now!!! LOL.

I have not seen 6.5 Creedmoor or any of the "military calibers "in abundance on the store shelves...

Every time I go to Sportsman's I look around and it's like this . when I try to find 7.62 NATO or 5.56 .

tenor (2).gif



When I ask one of the kids that work there they tell me there is plenty of the "Fudd" calibers ... I have no problems finding 270, 243 , 30-06 and 30-30 it always seems to be there..
 
I have not seen 6.5 Creedmoor or any of the "military calibers "in abundance on the store shelves...

Every time I go to Sportsman's I look around and it's like this . when I try to find 7.62 NATO or 5.56 .

View attachment 781628



When I ask one of the kids that work there they tell me there is plenty of the "Fudd" calibers ... I have no problems finding 270, 243 , 30-06 and 30-30 it always seems to be there..
Wow, everywhere I've been has multiple choices of 6.5 and out of all other calibers.
 
In the LGS here 6.5 Grendel, and 6.5 CR were the last things in bulk on the shelves, but I haven't looked in months. Also 270 seems to have held a place on shelves for a long time, but not in the big bucket of bullets packaging.
 
Im just wondering when the gun world is finally gonna run out of new calibers to invent that literally do the same thing as old school original calibers like the 270?
 
Im just wondering when the gun world is finally gonna run out of new calibers to invent that literally do the same thing as old school original calibers like the 270?

I hope never. Otherwise things will get pretty stale. I look forward to new stuff arriving on the shooting scene.
 

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