270 Win is a better cartridge than 6.5 Creedmoor

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I remember reading that after the glock more or less became the standard law enforcement side arm police qualification scores went up if for no other reason than it is an easier gun to shoot for a lot of folks versus a revolver or some other semi auto pistols. From my personal perspective I can't argue there isn't validity to that overservation it did not take as much for me to master a Glock as it did other handguns that I own and shoot.

The reason I bring this up is because there is corollary with smaller caliber rifles that are soft recoiling. Rifles such as the 5.56, 6.8 , 6.5 Grendel and now the 6.5 Creedmoor are all gentler cartridges to shoot so a marginal shooter can become proficient with it enough to hit in shorter amount of time. I think that to no small degree is why so many people are ascribing attributes to it really doesn't have in abundance.

A really good shooter is going to be able to make any gun he owns perform close to its potential. Marginal or unskilled shooters will not be so fortunate in obtaining good results.

I own a Steyr in 308 and assuming that I perform my job the rifle absolutely can shoot one ragged hole at 100 yards. It maints sub moa accuracy all the way out as far as I can shoot and reasonably expect to make a hit at around 600 yards. After that all bets are off my chops aren't as good as they once were so making really long shots are 50/50 luck for me.

I do not think a 6.5 Creedmoor would substantially do better than my Steyr in the accuracy department but it is in all likelihood going to be more pleasant to shoot for an extended range session
 

Dinglenutz

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Grandma probably killed more deer than most if not all people here ever will using a Winchester 62 pump and 22 short ammo. She'd stick the barrel out the kitchen window when she caught one eating from her apple orchard.

The mobile butcher always used a similar setup for popping the steer-of-the-year when it was time to restock the freezer.

Just about anything can be made to work reliably if the person doing the working is practiced and patient.
 
Another thing to consider here, most hunters know better then to take longer shots, especially when they know they are questionable, or that they simply haven't practiced, or even tried their rig out to those distances! In this, there is no real performance advantage to be found between most if not all .30 cal cartridges, just a few will get there a hell of a lot faster then the others! Same with the 6.5's, some are faster then others, but all can and will do the job if the hunter doe his/hers! For all practical intents and purposes, pick the one caliber combo YOU as a hunter can shoot well with and stick to that and you should be fine! Don't buy into this whole Caliber of the Month thing, as much as an improvement as they may offer, it's no better then any of the others!
 
I don't own a 6.5 but what I know about cartridges and rifles in general comes down to what rounds can be used in certain size actions or in what platforms. The 270 is a great all around cartridge but it won't work in a short action bolt gun or in an AR platform. Many hunters now like shorter but powerful rounds that keep the action short and thus the whole rifle shorter. And the popularity of the AR platform made the shorter cartridge even more popular.
 
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Didn't Cobb MFG try something like an AR styled long action semi for the larger cartridges? Yeah. It was Cobb, and they did the MCR series, the MCR 300 was designed to fire a .30-06... which in theory means it can be barreled to accept any of the cartridges based on the .30-06.
 
Given the timeframe that both cartridges have been in existence, it's not a fair comparison to give the '06 and 270win around 100 years to put records in the books and 13years for the 6.5CM.
Why don't you try and take my statement a little further out of context?
My comment had nothing to do with the 6.5CM, but entirely to do with the false statement about the .270.
 

Grizzly_A

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Why don't you try and take my statement a little further out of context?
My comment had nothing to do with the 6.5CM, but entirely to do with the false statement about the .270.
I could, but then I might read this post wrong and start talking about differences in cartridges. I thought we were talking about the 270 vs 6.5cm.

I popped some more popcorn so go ahead and continue the discussion. Jack O’Connor would never hunt with a 6.5.....one...two...proceed!
 
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I could, but then I might read this post wrong and start talking about differences in cartridges. I thought we were talking about the 270 vs 6.5cm.

I popped some more popcorn so go ahead and continue the discussion. Jack O’Connor would never hunt with a 6.5.....one...two...proceed!

Considering that he was a dyed in the wool 7mm man that is a pretty accurate assessment . So much so that even his wife Eleanor hunted with a 7x57 as did he before becoming the champion of the 270 Winchester.
 
If the 6.5CM had come out 28 years before the 270, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

(I don't have a 6.5CM, but I'm jealous it's the only cartridge that I can buy off the shelf right now at BiMart)
Sure we would. 6.5s, until the 6.5 CM, sold terribly in the US. The 264 Win Mag didn’t gain popularity. Neither did the 6.5 Rem Mag. The 6.5x47, 6.5-.284, and 260 were all niche cartridges that never became commercially successful. It would have been twisted slow and would have died like the 250 Savage, which it is very similar to.
 
Thing is, we 'Muricans only drink cheap bear piss beer, and only choot 'Murican made Cartridges, so any of those fancy metric European cartridges would have failed! It wasn't until Remington put it's formidable marketing dept. and YUGE budget into promoting the now legendary 7 MM Magnum, that we 'Muricans finally embraced one of them fancy metrics!
 
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If the 280 had come out 27 years earlier O’Connor would have never even given the 270 a glance.
I doubt that ... The 280 was just the commercialized version of existing wild cats that had been around since the 1920's .

The 270 is the American 7mm that gained acceptance on a wide scale , it would not happen again till Remington released the 7 Mag.
 
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So I dug up an old bookmark I have on quantifying the killing power of a cartridge. I think the OP @Robruger1 will take interest in this, as well as anyone who wants to quantify the killing power of their preferred hunting caliber.

Caution, this is not a simple answer... long complicated mathematical explanation ahead and... very subjective based on my personal bias for a killing power benchmark value for killing an elk at long distances (past 300yds IMO). (note: I choose elk cause I dont think there is a question the CM can kill deer at long distances....)
Disclaimer: I do NOT have time to quantify all loads of any given caliber so I only quantified 1 Hornandy load of each of the calibers in discussion here. Plus... Im not good at math so call me out if its off.

Short Version: Ive held the position in this thread the 6.5CM is less superior to the .270 but now Im thinking is "closer to equal", enough that it may not matter. "Closer"... I'm still open to by how much I just think the margin is narrower now. The only real difference Im finding between the two calibers is the .270 has more bullet load selections to choose from for hunting elk than the 6.5CM, in short... if your hunting elk with the CM past 300yds your pretty limited to appropriate factory ammo, but its available.... choose wisely.
In short, you can conclude your own opinion using the information Im sharing on quantifying the "Killing Power Score" (KPS) compared to the Effective Killing Range (EKG) and my own metric called Maximum Killing Range (MKR) for Class 3 (CXP3) animals like elk using the Chuck Hawks math formulas found here: https://www.chuckhawks.com/effective_range_rifle_cartridges.html



The long version:
Over the years Ive introduced 1 friend to elk hunting and influenced 2 others to caliber selections... my personal bias for the best elk calibers is the .270, 7mm Remington Magnum, and the 30-06. (FWIW, all three chose the 7mm Magnum). IMO, the MINIMUM caliber for elk hunting is the .270, though I think its more than adequate enough, but when people cant make up their mind I tell them to get the 30-06.
Here's the complicated part, Chuck Hawks article he only recommends a given KPS for deer, not elk... because he admits hes never hunted elk. He set his comfortable (ie: opinion) minimum benchmark for killing deer using the 30-30... which, I agree. He also didn't quantify the MKR (Maximum Killing Range) of a caliber (except maybe the 30-30 @ 150yds max)... so I made that term metric up for this discussion because the 6.5CM is marketed for long distance shooting that many hunters are "falling for" , and at short range hunting I dont see any reason to compare the two calibers they will kill elk equally.... For this discussion, if we are talking about shots under 300yds then it doesn't matter which caliber is better under 300 yds the 6.5CM is equal to the .270. (Regardless of how I feel about the average hunter thinking they may need to long range hunt past 300, it is a current trend Im seeing). Chuck Hawks stops at the EKR (Effective Killing Range) of a given caliber based on its MPBR (Maximum Point Blank Range) which is basically the maximum range a caliber can shoot without accounting for more than 3" of holdover or under.... I agree with that though that doesn't truly represent a MKR of a caliber... given a hunters long range marksmanship ability. Thus how I came up with the MKR metric for this comparison.


Quick note: I only have ballistic data out to 500yds because I use Hornandy's website, so for this discussion 500yds is the benchmark for long distance elk hunting as well as the minimum terminal performance for dropping an elk with the .270 or better (Im also fine with capping long distance elk hunting at 500yds for ethical and practical reasons...). Thus, IMO, the KPS for the .270 @ 500yds is my minimum benchmark for long distance elk hunting of a value of 20.5KPS using the Hornandy .270 (pn 80534) 140g Interlock SP bullet IF you place your bullet in a kill zone it will kill an elk at 500yds. (again, I dont recommend long distance shots for the average hunter, there are many other factors at play here out of the scope of this discussion).

Using Chuck Hawks formula, here is the KPS values for the .270 and the 6.5CM using 2 comparable Hornandy loads... at 500yds.
6.5CM Hornandy 81499 143g : 21.06kps
.270 Hornandy 80534 140g : 20.52kps

Note: the 6.5 is has a slightly higher killing power score. Regardless if we use the .270 as the minimum benchmark of 20.52kps, both calibers have the same EKR of 250yds and MKR of 500yds.

Ive typed too much but enjoyed geeking out on the data, have fun with it all...
 

JRuby

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i use what i trust and know will do the job. To me the very minimum is a 7×57 with a 154 grain bullet inside 200 yards for elk. You need to have confidence your tool. A lot of elephants have died because of the 7×57 but that does not make it an elephant gun and most sane individuals would not use it for one. Shots on elk have been hard to come by so i will use a tool that works even when everything isn"t perfect.
 

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