$240 AR15 triggers, why?

[40Garand]

I try to keep it as close to 1:1 as I can, though sometimes the rifle isn't worth that much scope, or it's just ridiculous, such as rifles in .50bmg, .375 cheytac, etc etc that cost as much as a car by themselves

On a good note I'm starting to control my urges better when it comes to strapping expensive glass onto 10-22's now.

 

[rjmt]

*Cough* vortex *cough*

Vortex makes some very fine optics now, I'll put their Viper line up against my Leopold's any day

 

[rjmt]

On a good note I'm starting to control my urges better when it comes to strapping expensive glass onto 10-22's now.

yes, but at least I put a $250 Tony Kidd trigger in my 10-22 before I put the Vortex Viper scope on top

 

[ORhutner]

Vortex is a scope designer and marketer. They do an excellent job at the marketing part. Scopes are designed to a price point and then contracted out for production. Vortex's low grade lines are made in China, mid grade in Philippines and higher grades like the Razor are manufactured in Japan at LOW. LOW also makes most of the scopes marked as made in Japan for other manufacturers. If memory serves they even make most of the components used in Nightforce optics. I personally am not a Vortex fan because the glass and reticle designs don't appeal to me. I might consider a Razor if they get the weight down to that of their peers in the same class. A Razor II weighs 11oz more than a similar Nightforce ATACR, I will take the Nightforce in addition to having better spec's and to my eyes better glass.

If Vortex works for someone, great, their money, their choice. I just choose to vote differently with my dollars.

 

[rjmt]

Vortex is a scope designer and marketer. They do an excellent job at the marketing part. Scopes are designed to a price point and then contracted out for production. Vortex's low grade lines are made in China, mid grade in Philippines and higher grades like the Razor are manufactured in Japan at LOW. LOW also makes most of the scopes marked as made in Japan for other manufacturers. If memory serves they even make most of the components used in Nightforce optics. I personally am not a Vortex fan because the glass and reticle designs don't appeal to me. I might consider a Razor if they get the weight down to that of their peers in the same class. A Razor II weighs 11oz more than a similar Nightforce ATACR, I will take the Nightforce in addition to having better spec's and to my eyes better glass.

If Vortex works for someone, great, their money, their choice. I just choose to vote differently with my dollars.

I have 2 FFP scopes, one Vortex Viper and one Night Force - price point was only $200 different at the time
my old eyes can't tell the difference

as for triggers, everyone I let shoot my Colt AR with it's new Geissele SAA-E trigger mashes right on through both stages
I agree most wont appreciate the glass like 1.5 lbs second stage break of the Geissele

 

[3MTA3]

My Arken plus $2000 in ammo will make me a better marksman than a $2500 scope and no ammo.

For an AR IMO a hundred dollars in trigger will get you more than a hundred dollars spent on better optics.

The standard GI trigger has three objectives that it nicely meets: Works every time, low cost, and pull weight within combat specs. Trigger feel is hit and miss. I've had one factory trigger I thought was decent, the rest very poor.

75 bucks will get a single stage trigger as good as a typical bolt action rifle in the ACT which starts life as a GI trigger. IMO well worth it and as a GI design has the same reliability. After that it's diminishing returns especially for a novice.

 

[Member 53328]

Going by the classifieds here, it's more often the opposite…people spend a ton on triggers, parts in general…and then top the rifle with cheap optics.

This is sadly very true. Something I have never understood.

 

[rjmt]

My Arken plus $2000 in ammo will make me a better marksman than a $2500 scope and no ammo.

For an AR IMO a hundred dollars in trigger will get you more than a hundred dollars spent on better optics.

The standard GI trigger has three objectives that it nicely meets: Works every time, low cost, and pull weight within combat specs. Trigger feel is hit and miss. I've had one factory trigger I thought was decent, the rest very poor.

75 bucks will get a single stage trigger as good as a typical bolt action rifle in the ACT which starts life as a GI trigger. IMO well worth it and as a GI design has the same reliability. After that it's diminishing returns especially for a novice.

the Geissele is a combat trigger, he's been providing triggers to US special forces for years
the average G.I. may have a factory trigger on their M4, but SOCOM does not

the Marines new M27 does not run a G.I. AR trigger

I disliked that G.I. trigger in '68, still do

 

[ORhutner]

My Arken plus $2000 in ammo will make me a better marksman than a $2500 scope and no ammo.

For an AR IMO a hundred dollars in trigger will get you more than a hundred dollars spent on better optics.

The standard GI trigger has three objectives that it nicely meets: Works every time, low cost, and pull weight within combat specs. Trigger feel is hit and miss. I've had one factory trigger I thought was decent, the rest very poor.

75 bucks will get a single stage trigger as good as a typical bolt action rifle in the ACT which starts life as a GI trigger. IMO well worth it and as a GI design has the same reliability. After that it's diminishing returns especially for a novice.

Funny, I have still been sold ammo after spending $2,500 on a scope. Joking aside, I am glad your Arken serves you well.

I agree with your comment about $100 spent appropriately on a trigger yielding better results then just about any other upgrade. You can shoot tiny little groups with the right target, using GI sights assuming the ammo, barrel and shooter are up to the task.

 

[Hueco]

*Cough* vortex *cough*

Ah, c'mon man. That's hittin' a little low. Love me some Vortex. And their vet discount is second to none.

 

[titsonritz]

I might consider a Razor if they get the weight down to that of their peers in the same class. A Razor II weighs 11oz more than a similar Nightforce ATACR, I will take the Nightforce in addition to having better spec's and to my eyes better glass.

Weight is the biggest turn-off for me when it comes to Vortex scopes, those that shoot from a bench won't care but start moving and shooting changes everything. Personally, I hate top heavy ARs, it completely alters the balance and dynamics of the weapon. I would for sure take a Nightforce ATACR 1-8 over a Razor HD 1-10, thruth is at 16.9oz my Kahles 1-6 is perfect for me.

Regarding GI triggers, the issue is there is very broad range of was is acceptable in a GI trigger, some are fine, others suck horribly. Geissele triggers are very consistant.

 

[Flopsweat]

My Arken plus $2000 in ammo will make me a better marksman than a $2500 scope and no ammo.

For an AR IMO a hundred dollars in trigger will get you more than a hundred dollars spent on better optics.

The standard GI trigger has three objectives that it nicely meets: Works every time, low cost, and pull weight within combat specs. Trigger feel is hit and miss. I've had one factory trigger I thought was decent, the rest very poor.

75 bucks will get a single stage trigger as good as a typical bolt action rifle in the ACT which starts life as a GI trigger. IMO well worth it and as a GI design has the same reliability. After that it's diminishing returns especially for a novice.

If you're on a budget the CMMG enhanced LPK comes with a nice single stage trigger. It's way better than a GI trigger or anything in a run of the mill LPK. I've got Geisseles in most of my good builds although I've tried a few others. I like LaRue. I think the one I have is called the LMT.

 

[3MTA3]

the Geissele is a combat trigger, he's been providing triggers to US special forces for years
the average G.I. may have a factory trigger on their M4, but SOCOM does not

the Marines new M27 does not run a G.I. AR trigger

I disliked that G.I. trigger in '68, still do

I have an SSA-E on an AR308 and love it. I'll likely upgrade a pair of AR-15's I built with very accurate barrels to them at some point as well, but have currently pegged out my gun dollars for a bit.

The AR308 is getting a new scope on Monday - an as new Primary Arms LPVO that was $400 new. Like the Arken it's inexpensive, not cheap - there is a difference. It does what I need it to do. Had it cost more money to meet that objective I would have gladly paid it, but why spend money needlessly?

I guess I fit the discussion above - $1500 rifle, $240 trigger (paid less on a black Friday deal years back), and a $350 used scope, heck I spent almost that much money on the Troy BUIS, and will likely add an ADM QD mount worth almost as much.

Feel free to face palm, but I looked through and studied a lot of optics and that's the one that floats my boat. The thing I find strange is how many will spend big bucks on and AR setup but don't bother to get a sling, or if they do get the cool single point version that whacks you in the nuts every time you take a step.

 

[rjmt]

old school Rem 700 VS with Vortex Viper FFP
and a $250 Timney trigger
good out to 800 yrds
not a self defense or patrol rifle

 

[titsonritz]

If you're on a budget the CMMG enhanced LPK comes with a nice single stage trigger. It's way better than a GI trigger or anything in a run of the mill LPK. I've got Geisseles in most of my good builds although I've tried a few others. I like LaRue. I think the one I have is called the LMT.

For decent budget triggers I would say ALG ACT, BCM PNT, Centurion Arms AMT, SIONICS EMST, and SOLGW LFT (all basically the same thing) with a slight nod to SIONICS for the Np3, they also put out the best deal on a complete LPK out there IMO.

 

[40Garand]

For decent budget triggers I would say ALG ACT, .

Yup, Noveske put me onto those years ago. If you want to be frugal and still have a good time the ALG is my go to when I don't want to flex on the poors with ALG's parent company's triggers.

 

[Flopsweat]

For decent budget triggers I would say ALG ACT, BCM PNT, Centurion Arms AMT, SIONICS EMST, and SOLGW LFT (all basically the same thing) with a slight nod to SIONICS for the Np3, they also put out the best deal on a complete LPK out there IMO.

Nice. Not every rifle I have has to have the best of everything. Some are mostly just for close in range fun. A decent trigger and a mid-range red dot will more than do it.

... The thing I find strange is how many will spend big bucks on and AR setup but don't bother to get a sling, or if they do get the cool single point version that whacks you in the nuts every time you take a step.

I've taken to putting slings even on my cheap rifles in case they are needed for protection. It probably wouldn't have occurred to me a few years ago but bubblegum's getting weird lately.

 

[titsonritz]

Yup, Noveske put me onto those years ago. If you want to be frugal and still have a good time the ALG is my go to when I don't want to flex on the poors with ALG's parent company's triggers.

They were the first, followed by many.

 

[titsonritz]

I've taken to putting slings even on my cheap rifles in case they are needed for protection. It probably wouldn't have occurred to me a few years ago but bubblegum's getting weird lately.

Slings are to rifles as holsters are to handguns.

 

[TTSX]

Slings are to rifles as holsters are to handguns.

Ahem.